Harry's remark about Kreacher/Should JKR shut up?

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 178590

> zgirnius:
> Thank you for posting the canon. After reading this thread, I was 
> beginning to think I misremembered the ending, and Harry had 
actually 
> ordered a sandwich from Kreacher!
> 
> Now that I see the canon - where does it say Harry planned to ask 
for 
> a sandwich at all? The only action Harry expresses any thought of 
> taking is going upstairs to bed. He expresses also a vague hope 
that 
> Kreacher might bring him a sandwich, but no intention of actually 
> making it so.
> 
> Is this an unreasonable hope for Harry to harbor? I would say not. 

Magpie:
This is getting even more convuluted to me, and it seems like a very 
straightforward sentence. Now Harry's hoping that Kreacher will 
notice he's gone and take it into his head to fulfill Harry's desire 
for a sandwich without Harry asking? Why would he think that? Since 
when does he go to bed when he wants a sandwich?

I think the most obvious interpretation of the sentence, one which is 
the least complicated and the only one that would ever come to my 
mind just reading it is that Harry is thinking about getting into bed 
and considering having Kreacher to bring him a sandwich there. Which 
he would do by asking him for a sandwich once he's bed.

Honestly, Harry hoping Kreacher will just bring him a sandwich 
without asking gets into Harry being even more weirdly demanding on 
his property for me. 

> zgirnius:
> So for the sandwich to come, all it would take is for Kreacher to 
> notice his master is absent from the meal, and take steps to get 
the 
> food to him. This seems entirely in character for Kreacher. And if 
he 
> doesn't notice - Harry can always nip down to the kitchen for a 
snack 
> after he wakes.

Magpie:
Or all it would take for the sandwich to arrive is for Harry to, in 
bed, say, "Hey Kreacher? Could you make me a sandwich?" and have 
Kreacher do it. I don't actually consider it that in character for 
Kreacher to zap himself into his master's bedroom with sandwiches if 
he's gone to bed. And then again we're back to Harry nipping down to 
the kitchen for a snack later when he just said he's thinking about 
Kreacher bringing him a sandwich in bed. All he says is that he's 
picturing his bed and Kreacher bringing him a sandwich there.

Alla:

But what proper place? Who decides that everything in proper place?

Magpie:
Harry. Not everyone in the WW thinks everything's fine this way, but 
Harry's fine with things without Voldemort. Harry goes from a Muggle 
who knows nothing about House-Elves to owning one. Some people don't 
like having Harry own a slave, that's all. He's not born into a 
society that exists, JKR made it up for him and ended it with Harry 
owning a loyal slave. That's the end. I don't think that's the same 
thing as War & Peace or Gone with the Wind or any story based on 
history. If people don't like their 20th century hero owning a slave, 
they just don't like it and there's no explanations regarding 
historical accuracy that apply.

Alla:
Of course I do not see Harry asking Kreacher for sandwich as sign of
his spiritual awakening, but I do not see that if Kreacher ever
wants freedom, Harry will refuse him now OR if Hermione makes
reforms, Harry will be against them.

Magpie:
Sure I think Harry would give Kreacher his freedom if he wanted it. 
That's what makes this kind of slavery so strange and appealing. The 
slaves really do want to be slaves. Harry can be a good anti-slavery 
person while also enjoying a slave who "loves" him and knowing he 
totally wants slaves to be free, really. The change where this is no 
longer the way things are in the WW will never happen, because the 
story's over. He wins all the way around--totally guilt free slavery. 
Why change it?


Alla:
Where we differ I think is in inttepreting JKR's intentions. I think
she wanted to show that century long brainwashing does not go away
so fast. NOT that this is the proper place. IMO of course.

Magpie:
I don't see how she can be saying that without saying anything like 
it at all. She has Harry go from somebody who would never in his life 
consider having a slave to somebody who owns one. Hermione gets over 
her initial convictions that it's wrong and must be stopped. Freeing 
House Elves is a non-issue that nobody's working towards and nobody 
wants, most of all House Elves. As I said, it's essentially guilt-
free slavery, because Harry's both the champion of House Elves and 
the owner of one. Why would the point be that it just takes a long 
time to go away? (Harry himself is moving in the opposite direction.) 
That last sentence says very much to me that Kreacher bringing Harry, 
his master, a sandwich is everything in its proper place, as does the 
final "all was well" at the end. 

catlady:
Someone else already said this, but: WHY should Rowling be the only 
person in the world who doesn't have the right to say things about 
Potterverse... 

Magpie:
She has every right. But she isn't just another person and everyone 
knows that. That's what the articles I've read have said, and that I 
agree with. Even if you know that if it's not in canon it's not in 
the books of course it's harder to think of of anything different 
when the author said it. If we're all at a tea party talking about 
the books, JKR isn't just another guest, she carries a lot more 
weight. It's like we're all people and she's an 800 pound gorilla. 
When she sits down at the table she breaks the chair. 


-m