The Fundamental Message.../ Heroes...

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 176528

> > >>Jen:
> > Three of his ideals came to fruition within the scope of the 
story 
> > in my opinion: Differences of habit and language were put 
aside     
> > when groups coalesced, the Dementors were gone from Azkaban, 
and    
> > Kingsley was appointed to the MOM.  I don't think his efforts 
were 
> > pointless even if his cause wasn't Slytherin house.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> There's that big tree again. ;-)  It's impossible for me to 
overlook 
> the exclusion of Slytherin house.  Not after Dumbledore has 
witnessed 
> the evil that either its presence at the school (going with 
> the "Slytherins *are* bad" view of the books), or its designation 
as 
> Hogwarts' scapegoat (going by how my personal view still insists on 
> subverting the text) caused so much pain in the WW.
> 
> It's like trying to see how the trains ran on time, or how starving 
> white folks got baskets of food.  I still can't admire the Nazis or 
> the Klan.  The tree's just too darn big. 

Magpie:
But wait, didn't Voldemort do all of those things and not Dumbledore? 
Or is the point here that Voldemort did do it? The differences of 
culture were put aside very momentarily to kill Voldemort--there's no 
indication anybody was putting any effort into building a new society 
after that. A temporary "we love Harry" moment doesn't actually 
address any other issues that keep them apart in peacetime.  
Voldemort gave them a common enemy. Some groups sided with him, and 
some against him. (It probably goes without saying there's no 
compromises made on the part of the good guys, since it's really 
everybody else who needs to get a clue.)

The Dementors, iirc, left Azkaban to join Voldemort--again, he got 
rid of them, not Dumbledore or society. Dumbledore worked with them 
as guards of Azkaban. Do we know they're not guards at Azkaban 
anymore? They're working at the MoM in DH, maybe they still are 
afterwards, only not under DEs. I don't recall getting rid of them 
being any main objective of Dumbledore's.

Voldemort killed Scrimgeor, leaving the job open.:-) Presumably 
Kingsley was elected because he was a good anti-Voldemort candidate 
who represented the way the WW was feeling at the time, just as 
Scrimgeour was a man who seemed like he was tough on DEs and so 
better than Fudge at his time. It's a good thing, but again follows 
the pattern of needing the right people in charge to keep everyone in 
line rather than any fundamental change in the society. (I hear that 
would be unrealistic.;-).

I'm not seeing where any of this was really put together by the good 
side. Fudge, who as you say was in DD's pocket, did not have a 
government or represent a society in any way strong enough to stand 
up to Voldemort en masse. They quickly fell to Voldemort's way of 
running things, leaving only Harry's group to save everyone and 
everyone to be grateful afterwards and probably give him power. 
There's no addressing of the underlying problems that made this 
likely to happen that I can see (perhaps it's considered impossible). 
(Meanwhile, as you say, the kids at school still correctly identify 
Slytherin House as the bad house and kids like Scorpius still have a 
lot stacked against them already by the time they're 11.)

-m