Identifying with Slytherins was Re: Dark Magic

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 176642

Prep0strus:
> Ok, this is all obviously going to be what I decided to read into
it, and so just opinion and conjecture, but I think what we see in the
pensieve is a snippet, not the whole story.  


Carol responds:
I'm pretty sure that the snippets were chosen by the author to reveal
what she felt needed to be revealed--for example, that Severus did
nothing to earn his nickname of Snivellus and that he saw Slytherin as
the house for brains. It's no coincidence that James's sneer at
Slytherin is virtually identical to Draco's sneer at Hufflepuff in
SS/PS. There is no further opportunity in canon to provide backstory
on these characters. If it's not in the Pensieve and has not been
introduced earlier, it's not important, in her view. I also believe
that anything in the Pensieve scene in "The Prince's Tale" that
conflicts with previous canon should supersede that canon, especially
opinions expressed by characters (whether Harry, Lupin, Black, or
Snape himself).

Prep0strus:

I don't believe Sirius made up his mind as an 11 year old on the
train, but I don't believe what happened on the train was all that bad
– a poster made a point a while back that it was different students
expressing opinions on the houses, and based on this they all disliked
each other – never commenting on clothes or physical appearance.

Carol:
Exactly. Severus believed that Slytherin was the house for brains,
James that Gryffindor was the house of chivalry (though his behavior
was anything but chivalrous). Sirius knew only that his family had
been in Slytherin and that James disliked Slytherin and he wanted to
be friends with James. He says that maybe he'll break tradition. Then
James trips Severus and Sirius (apparently) calls him Snivellus for no
cause other than his desire to be in a house that James doesn't like.
If physical appearance came into it, we don't see it, but the narrator
does note (from Harry's pov) that James looked well cared for and
Severus didn't. The whole scene is very much on the same level as
Harry's first and second encounters with Draco--eleven-year-olds
forming judgments and holding prejudices based on the expectations of
their parents, and, in Sirius's case, a conflict between his family's
views and those of his new friend. You may think that he hasn't yet
made up his mind, but it's pretty clear to me that he's rejected
Slytherin (and a kid he doesn't even know who wants to be in it) based
solely on his desire to remain on good terms with James. Otherwise,
the sneer at Severus for having neither brains nor brawn (it's obvious
he's not brawny, but neither is Sirius or James, and he has no idea of
Severus's intelligence, which is quite the match of his) and the nasty
nickname Snivellus (a distortion of Severus's name with no other
basis) are inexplicable, as is his approval of James tripping Severus
for no reason.

Prep0strus:
  And I've said many times I believe they knew what was going on in
the world. <snip>

Carol response:
You may believe that, but as Hermione says of Crumple-Horned
Snorkacks, where's the evidence? It's not in the Pensieve scene or
anywhere else in canon. Possibly the kids listen to the wizarding
wireless or the Daily Prophet, but we know that those sources of
information are often controlled by the MoM. We know how reluctant
Fudge et al. were to admit that Voldemort was back, to the point of
officially denying it for a year. Perhaps they were just as reluctant
to admit that this new Dark Wizard, who had just started his campaign
of murder and terror, was a real threat. Most people in the WW didn't
know that Voldemort had been Tom Riddle. The Blacks until much later
(at least until Regulus was sixteen and joined the DEs and maybe until
his death at seventeen--at this time, he's about eight) thought that
Voldemort had the right idea. That would be what Sirius heard at home,
a view that his younger brother never questioned. Perhaps James is the
first person he knows who questioned it unless cousin Andromeda had
already married a Muggle-born and been burned off the family tree).

But how, exactly, are kids whose parents have access to only one not
wholly reliable newspaper and perhaps a bit of equally unreliable news
on the wizarding wireless supposed to know exactly what's going on?
Both would be exposed primarily, if not solely, to their parents'
views (along with Cissy's or Bella's if they came to dinner, in
Sirius's case). And what exactly *was* going on? Lucius Malfoy was
still a prefect at Hogwarts and probably not yet a Death Eater. Only
Tom Riddle's original school friends and perhaps a few of their older
sons would have yet been recruited. The Order of the Phoenix most
likely had not yet been created to fight Voldemort. MWPP and Lily were
eleven years old. The conversation on the train between James, Sirius,
Severus, and Lily indicates no political awareness whatever, only
James's desire to be in the house his father has taught him is for
"the brave at heart" and Severus's desire to be in the house that his
mother has taught him is for "brains." I think we glimpse their
respective views of themselves as well, certainly of their values.

Prep0strus:
> To some small extent, I get why people identify with Sev over the
Marauders – he was poor and they were rich.  James was an athlete, and
it is described that they might be more popular (though it's hard to
say what popularity means when Sev has his own Young Death Eater
group).  <snip>

Carol responds:
It's more than that. Snape was right about James. He was arrogant. And
worse than arrogant, he was a bully who misjudged Severus from the
moment Severus expressed a desire to be in Slytherin (a house that he
mistakenly thought that Lily could be in, too). And Sirius joins with
him in his prejudice, calling Severus unearned nicknames and rejecting
his parents's house at least in part because of James. Young Severus,
though he has his flaws, is primarily a sympathetic figure, a plant
left in the dark with only one real friend. 

James's "popularity," which we can only judge from the reactions of
some but not all of the kids in SWM, seems to be based in part on his
Quidditch abilities (which would endear him to fellow Gryffindors but
no one else) and in part on his outgoing personality (he's not
handsome like Sirius despite repeated assertions by some posters to
the contrary), but could owe something to the fear of being hexed in
the hallways or general antipathy toward Slytherin by late in their
fifth year (by which time, unlike the eleven-year-olds on the train,
they probably do have a fairly clear idea of what's going on in the
outside world. Lupin's assertion that James and Sirius were "the best
at everything they did" is simply not true. Both Lily and Severus were
better than they were at Potions and Severus was better at DADA (and
inventing hexes and charms). Sirius and James were better at
Transfiguration (motivated at first, no doubt, by their desire to
become Animagi). There's no indication that Sirius was good at
Quidditch, or at anything else except being handsome.

But, yes. Sirius and James had all the advantages--wealth and looks in
Sirius's case, wealth and loving parents and Quidditch talent in
James's. Severus had none of those things, only a brilliant mind and
precocious talent appreciated (only) by his fellow Slytherins
(including, apparently, the much older Lucius Malfoy) and one friend,
a girl sorted into a different--and rival--house. It was the worst
possible time to be sorted into Slytherin, just as Voldemort was
coming into power and all the eager young Slytherins were watching him
rise, perhaps collecting press clippings like Regulus Black. Had
Severus been born ten years earlier or ten years later, he might well
have escaped Voldemort's influence. Instead, he finished school at a
time when Voldie seemed to be winning, and, having lost Lily to the
hated James, he must have thought there was no choice but to join his
friends Avery and Mulciber and his former mentor, Lucius Malfoy
(judging from Black's "lapdog" reference and Malfoy's welcome of the
lonely little half-blood into his new house). Yes, he chose wrongly.
Yes, he espoused the wrong values. Yes, he did a terrible thing in
revealing the Prophecy to Voldemort. Yes, his motive in wanting to
save her and not her hated husband or their son who was nothing to him
was selfish. Yes, he viewed Harry through a distorted lens (but Sirius
also saw him as James reborn). Yes, he was sarcastic bitter and unfair
and unable to let go of the past (but neither could Sirius). But his
anguished remorse over Lily's death and his dedication of his life to
protecting her son and defeating Voldemort at great personal risk
through a uniquely Slytherin blend of deception and courage is
material for tragedy. His story, from the eavesdropping incident to
his dying message to Harry is tied to Harry's in a way that no other
character's is, his redemption is tied to Harry's victory, and we are
meant to see Harry's gesture in naming his second son Albus Severus as
exactly the right thing to do.

Carol, wishing that Dumbledore had taken the time to nourish Severus's
talents and steer him in the right direction (but then there'd have
been no story)