Harry's looks (Was: Dark Book - Blood and Cruelty/ Draco)

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 177266

Carol:
> > <snip>
> > But Harry *isn't* handsome.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Then why are all those girls falling all over him in HBP?  Why does
Cho fancy him?  Why does Hermione take the time to explain to Harry 
that he is actually attractive to the opposite sex?

Caerol again:
I already answered that. In one case (Yule Ball), he's just gotten
past a dragon. In the other case (Slughorn's party), he's just been
involved in a fight with Death Eaters and Voldemort, so his claim that
Voldemort is back has been confirmed. (Also, he's just won a game
against Slytherin, which makes him popular with the Gryffindors.) In
both cases, it's his athletic ability combined with a hero image
(underage kid against a dragon or a Dark wizard). Nobody, not even
Romilda Vane, says a word about Harry's looks, in contrast to all the
swooning over handsome Cedric.

Even in the Potterverse, girls aren't attracted to boys solely because
of looks. VIKTOR KRUM, remember? There's also athletic ability, real
or perceived heroism (he did have help with the dragon, not to mention
with Voldemort in the MoM, but they don't know it), fame, and the
whole David-and-Goliath syndrome, in which a young and weak person
(usually a man or boy) goes against a seemingly unbeatable opponent
and wins. Glamor, I suppose. Celebrity. Looks have, in this instance,
nothing to do with it. Nor does his money, which no one knows about.
> 
Betsy Hp:
> Yes, JKR doesn't come right out and *say* this is a very good
looking kid we've got here, but she implies it pretty stongly. <snip>

Carol:
Where? Just one quote implying that Harry is handsome or good-looking
will suffice.

Carol earlier:
> > His ordinariness is supposed to be part of his appeal. The skinny
kid with glasses isn't the nerd this time. He's the hero. And > at the
same time, he's Everykid.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Right.  A wealthy, supernaturally gifted athlete, tragically 
orphaned, wickedly abused, chosen by fate, facer of challenges 
Hercules would shake his head at, everykid.  Because he wears 
glasses.  I often sit around and think, what with his dark hair and
glasses, Harry's just like me! <eg> 
> 
> (Also, Harry's in no way a nerd.  It takes more to earn that moniker 
> than wearing glasses.  Non-glasses wearing Snape is a nerd.)

Carol responds:

I meant that kids who wear glasses are usually stereotyped as nerds in
films and kids' books and cartoons. It's rare to find a hero who wears
them. (It reminds me of the old Dorothy Parker line, "Men seldom make
passes/at girls who wear glasses.") Also, I was using "nerd" to mean
"geek." You know, an unpopular, rather dorky type who may or may not
be an intellectual like Snape, who is a "nerd" only in the sense that
he wasn't popular and preferred intellectual activities to athletic
ones. Male characters who wear glasses, especially boys or young men,
are usually either geeky dorks or wimpy intellectuals. Peter Parker
and Superman's alter ego whose name escapes me take off their glasses
when they become heroes. Harry (who never becomes a *super*hero
because he defeats Voldie through luck or Love and not through his own
much weaker powers) keeps his glasses on.

As for Harry as Everykid, he comes from a dysfunctional family; has a
few exceptional powers (the scar connection, Parseltongue, his
Patronus) but is no better at other forms of magic (Potions,
Transfiguration, Charms) than Ron; procrastinates on his homework and
sometimes cheats by copying Hermione's or letting Ron copy his (not to
mention taking credit for the HBP's Potions improvements); likes
sports better than schoolwork--yeah. Everykid--except that he has that
scar and Voldemort keeps trying to kill him. As Snape says, he escapes
mainly through luck and more talented friends.

If you still think that being short and skinny, having hair that
sticks up in back like Dennis the Menace's, wearing glasses, having a
scar on his forehead, and having "knobbly knees" makes a boy handsome,
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think it makes him
ordinary, at least in the looks department. In fact, if he let his
hair grow long and didn't wash it (and had a somewhat larger, hooked
nose) he'd look very much like the young Severus Snape.

Not one single character ever refers to Harry as handsome. He's
idolized (when he's idolized, which is by no means all the time)
either for his athletic prowess (like James) or because he's the Boy
who Lived/the Chosen One. Ginny has always idolized him as "the boy
who defeated the Dark Lord" (even when all he's done is survive an
AK). Even Cho never refers to his looks. She's a Seeker like him and,
as far as I can tell, chiefly admires his athletic ability. Once he
gets past the dragon and the other TWT tasks, she admires that, too.
She's torn between him--the youngest TWT champion--and Cedric--the
handsome TWT champion.

You keep ignoring my references to Viktor Krum, but Viktor is concrte
proof that Hogwarts girls will idolize a boy for athletic ability and
fame without regard to his appearance. (Viktor walks like a duck and
looks like a dark-browed vulture. Sorry, Viktor. I do like you, but
you're not good looking.)

Harry, unlike Krum, is only intermittently popular. He has intervals
when he's the least popular kid in school and is even being maligned
by the Daily Prophet and much of the WW as a lying show-off. And
neither his wealth, which no one knows about, nor his looks, which
would be completely ordinary if not for his scar, has anything to do
with his (fluxuating and inconsistent) popularity. Both his popularity
and his unpopularity are determined by how many points he earns or
loses for his House (or school), the Daily Prophet's depictions, and
incidents like the snake he supposedly urged to attack Justin
Finch-Fletchley in CoS.

Carol, granting that his bouts of popularity happen to coincide with
important social events like the Yule Ball and the Christmas party
thanks to JKR's plot needs