Dumbledore.

Dana ida3 at planet.nl
Wed Sep 26 05:21:36 UTC 2007


No: HPFGUIDX 177415

Eggplant:
> Yes, Harry was alive because Voldemort was still alive, he was only
> injured when he tried to kill Harry in the forest because he still 
> had the snake.

Dana:
I disagree with this assessment because this would imply that the 
soul bit in Harry was somehow more powerful then any of LV's other 
soul pieces and that is not how I perceived it. I don't think that 
Voldemort's life dependent on the soul piece residing in Harry for 
him to stay alive and actually this would conflict with what we 
actually see happening. 

When Harry comes back the piece of Voldemort's soul is no longer 
there and thus if your assessment was correct Voldemort would not be 
able to live and that is not what we see. Not even Nagini's death has 
any lasting effect on Voldemort within that specific time frame. 

Harry's return did not depend on the soul piece attached to his but 
on the blood LV used to regain himself a body. So as long as that 
body had any vital signs Harry could return to the living world. 

Eggplant:
> But he would have if then he was hit with another backfiring AK 
> curse,and soon after that he was. Dumbledore certainly expected 
> Harry to die and said as much to Snape. I can think of absolutely 
> no reason Dumbledore would lie about that, not to Snape, not when 
> he's angry at Dumbledore for leading Lilly Potter's son to 
> slaughter like a pig. But in Dumbledore's defense he wasn't asking 
> Harry to do anything he wasn't willing to do himself. Dumbledore 
> could be very cold blooded when he needed to be, and in war you 
> need to be.

Dana:
What makes you so certain DD wouldn't lie to Snape? DD did not have a 
habit of confiding in Snape as we have seen. Snape was only on a need-
to-know basis with DD and nothing more. Snape was angry about that 
too, remember? 

DD did lie to Snape because it was essential for the plan to work 
that Harry only got a minimum of information to act on and make sure 
that Harry would not make the crucial mistake of attempting to kill 
LV before the soul piece residing in him was effectively taken care 
off. 
As you probably remember DD ordered Snape to tell Harry when he saw 
LV keeping Nagini close, so DD was counting on Harry having this 
information before he would attempt to take Nagini out because DD 
would know that Harry would have needed to expose himself to LV to 
even get to Nagini. 

With making sure that Harry had this information before Nagini was 
killed, he ensured that Harry would not fight LV in his attempt to 
kill Nagini and thus risking killing the only thing that would give 
Harry a chance to live. If Nagini would have been death and Harry 
would have fought LV then LV could not die because he still had one 
soul piece binding him to the living world -> the one residing in 
Harry.  He would turn into Vapormort again and if Harry had 
sacrificed himself afterwards then his own death would have been 
permanent too. 

So by having Harry sacrifice himself without fighting LV, Dumbledore 
would be sure that this would not happen. The soul piece within Harry 
would be killed but as long as LV still had his remaining soul living 
in his new body, the blood LV used to make it would bind Harry to the 
land of the living. 
So in the event that LV and Harry would both get killed in a fight 
and Harry had failed to take care of Nagini beforehand then LV would 
have had a chance to return, while Harry did not.  So DD would need 
to make sure that this would not occur at all cost and therefore he 
could only ensure this by letting Snape relay the message that Harry 
needed to die by LV's hand without putting up a fight. Not fighting 
LV would ensure LV's body would survive and thus provide Harry a way 
to return. 

Also I think Dumbledore wanted to prevent LV using legilimens, and 
get this knowledge from Harry or even Snape and which would surely 
have resulted in Voldemort not killing Harry. If Voldemort had not 
killed Harry then he still would have been immortal with or without 
Nagini. 

So again I conclude that LV being effected by killing Harry was only 
because LV killed the link Harry had with him, forcefully, but that 
it was not an indication that LV would have died at the same time 
Harry did because if he had died and Nagini was the only soul piece 
keeping him bound to the living world then LV would have been 
vapormort and Harry would have lost the ability to return himself 
because it was dependent on the body's survival (LV's) and not on the 
survival of LV's soul. 

JMHO

Dana






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