Dumbledore.
Dana
ida3 at planet.nl
Wed Sep 26 05:21:36 UTC 2007
No: HPFGUIDX 177415
Eggplant:
> Yes, Harry was alive because Voldemort was still alive, he was only
> injured when he tried to kill Harry in the forest because he still
> had the snake.
Dana:
I disagree with this assessment because this would imply that the
soul bit in Harry was somehow more powerful then any of LV's other
soul pieces and that is not how I perceived it. I don't think that
Voldemort's life dependent on the soul piece residing in Harry for
him to stay alive and actually this would conflict with what we
actually see happening.
When Harry comes back the piece of Voldemort's soul is no longer
there and thus if your assessment was correct Voldemort would not be
able to live and that is not what we see. Not even Nagini's death has
any lasting effect on Voldemort within that specific time frame.
Harry's return did not depend on the soul piece attached to his but
on the blood LV used to regain himself a body. So as long as that
body had any vital signs Harry could return to the living world.
Eggplant:
> But he would have if then he was hit with another backfiring AK
> curse,and soon after that he was. Dumbledore certainly expected
> Harry to die and said as much to Snape. I can think of absolutely
> no reason Dumbledore would lie about that, not to Snape, not when
> he's angry at Dumbledore for leading Lilly Potter's son to
> slaughter like a pig. But in Dumbledore's defense he wasn't asking
> Harry to do anything he wasn't willing to do himself. Dumbledore
> could be very cold blooded when he needed to be, and in war you
> need to be.
Dana:
What makes you so certain DD wouldn't lie to Snape? DD did not have a
habit of confiding in Snape as we have seen. Snape was only on a need-
to-know basis with DD and nothing more. Snape was angry about that
too, remember?
DD did lie to Snape because it was essential for the plan to work
that Harry only got a minimum of information to act on and make sure
that Harry would not make the crucial mistake of attempting to kill
LV before the soul piece residing in him was effectively taken care
off.
As you probably remember DD ordered Snape to tell Harry when he saw
LV keeping Nagini close, so DD was counting on Harry having this
information before he would attempt to take Nagini out because DD
would know that Harry would have needed to expose himself to LV to
even get to Nagini.
With making sure that Harry had this information before Nagini was
killed, he ensured that Harry would not fight LV in his attempt to
kill Nagini and thus risking killing the only thing that would give
Harry a chance to live. If Nagini would have been death and Harry
would have fought LV then LV could not die because he still had one
soul piece binding him to the living world -> the one residing in
Harry. He would turn into Vapormort again and if Harry had
sacrificed himself afterwards then his own death would have been
permanent too.
So by having Harry sacrifice himself without fighting LV, Dumbledore
would be sure that this would not happen. The soul piece within Harry
would be killed but as long as LV still had his remaining soul living
in his new body, the blood LV used to make it would bind Harry to the
land of the living.
So in the event that LV and Harry would both get killed in a fight
and Harry had failed to take care of Nagini beforehand then LV would
have had a chance to return, while Harry did not. So DD would need
to make sure that this would not occur at all cost and therefore he
could only ensure this by letting Snape relay the message that Harry
needed to die by LV's hand without putting up a fight. Not fighting
LV would ensure LV's body would survive and thus provide Harry a way
to return.
Also I think Dumbledore wanted to prevent LV using legilimens, and
get this knowledge from Harry or even Snape and which would surely
have resulted in Voldemort not killing Harry. If Voldemort had not
killed Harry then he still would have been immortal with or without
Nagini.
So again I conclude that LV being effected by killing Harry was only
because LV killed the link Harry had with him, forcefully, but that
it was not an indication that LV would have died at the same time
Harry did because if he had died and Nagini was the only soul piece
keeping him bound to the living world then LV would have been
vapormort and Harry would have lost the ability to return himself
because it was dependent on the body's survival (LV's) and not on the
survival of LV's soul.
JMHO
Dana
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