Dumbledore (but more Snape)

[va32h]

No: HPFGUIDX 177436

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> 
wrote:
> It's not a question of better to die fighting than live under the 
influence 
> of evil, or of fleeing to death in order to escape pain.  Harry had 
yet to do 
> what Lily did -- step forward and say, "Take me instead." It's not 
something
> he would have done all along. As he says in PoA, "Why would I
> want to go looking for someone who wants to kill me?" (quoting
> from memory.) 
> 
> I don't know how different that is in RL from taking the risk of 
dying
> in a fight because I've never done either. But it's something that
> storytellers have always treated as different. It's like Spock 
going into
> the reactor knowing there's no chance he'll survive,  as opposed 
> to ducking phaser blasts in battle or rushing off to save Kirk.
> 
>   It had to be Harry's own idea, not something he did 
> because Dumbledore had asked it of him. But Dumbledore hoped 
> very much that Harry would do it. That is why, IMO, he  radiates 
> so much happiness when Harry pulls it off. 

va32h:

But Harry *did* go looking for someone who (he thought) was trying to 
kill him.  Harry *did* go after Sirius. 

And Harry already had the revelation that there is a difference 
between being "dragged into an arena and walking in with your head 
held high"  (also quoting from memory).  Harry had that revelation 
*in front of* Dumbledore, in HBP, and Harry understands that it's the 
way his parents died.

And I just don't see how it's Harry's idea and not something 
Dumbledore asked of him, because as soon as Harry sees Dumbledore 
tell Snape that it's what he (Harry) has to do, that's it - there's 
not a split second of internal struggle.  Harry accepts Dumbledore's 
word as gospel.  Dumbledore said he had to die, so by golly, he's 
gonna go off and die.  

And even after basking in Dumbledore's glow in King's Cross, Harry 
has to go back to DD yet again, to seek DD's approval yet again, via 
the portrait.  That's just - ugh.  


> Pippin:
> I'm sorry you're so disappointed. It's funny, some of the people I 
thought
> would really like the book are disappointed, and some of those I 
> thought would hate it don't.
> 
> Me,  I loved the book, and the more it's criticized, the more things
> I find in it to love. There's no lack of mourning rituals,  all you 
have to
> do is go back and read them again. We have Fawkes's
> lament, Dumbledore's funeral and  Dobby's burial. We don't need to
> have them over and over again for the sake of every character, at 
least I
> don't. It'd be like the RoTK movie, which ends when the ring is 
destroyed
> and ends when  Aragorn gets married, and  ends  when Sam gets 
> married, and then when Frodo goes over the sea...but wait, there's 
more! <g>

va32h:

I have no knowledge of anything regarding Lord of the Rings. Never 
seen a film or read one of the books.  

I'm not talking about mourning within the series - but specifically 
in terms of DH, there is no mourning for a character whose death 
actually affects people.  Dobby's death is sad, sure, but there's no 
Mrs. Dobby to worry about how she's going to pay the bills, or little 
Dobbies having to ponder a life without daddy.  It's an "easy" 
mourning because the characters can just say (essentially) "bummer" 
and go on about their business.  Dealing with Fred's death, or 
Lupin's death would actually require some sort of effort to you know, 
think about how that loss affects the other characters and how that 
would be conveyed in the story.  But JKR just takes the easy (lazy) 
way out yet again.  

Pippin:
> Clearly the HP books are not meant to be read in a linear fashion.

va32h:

Heavens no, or the inconsistencies and mistakes will drive you crazy!