Disappointment Was: Deaths in DH WAS: Re: Dumbledore (but more Snape)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 177478

Lealess: 
<SNIP>
> So, there it is.  What I don't like about saying these things on 
this 
> forum is that either someone will feel I have to be saved from my 
own 
> opinions and become a born-again DH-evangelist, or someone will 
take 
> the tiny instances in which I have misspoken and address those 
> instead of addressing the whole thing.  Such is life.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Moving the last paragraph of your post to be the first one to reply. 
Sorry.

You do not like saying it because someone may address one point 
instead of whole thing?

What if I find only one or two or three points disagreeable?

Obviously I am not going to argue with your dislike of the book, 
because indeed how can we debate perceptions, but I certainly want to 
adress this point.

Lealess:
<SNIP>
> I have read eloquent appraisals of DH since its publication, and 
they 
> all seem like wish fulfillment to me, as if people are filling in 
the 
> writing that JKR did not do herself, "this is what she meant."  
This 
> is funny to me, since ... what are expectations, after all?
> 
> For example:
> carol:
> > <snip> Harry's ability to see certain characters
> > (Snape and Draco in particular) more clearly--finally? 

> Lealess:
> I don't see this.  He gave his son "Al" the middle name Severus 
> because of a trait Harry valued, bravery, not because he saw Snape 
> clearly.  He didn't hex Draco on site at the train station 
presumably 
> because Draco's kept his nose clean, not because he understands him.

Carol:
> > It's enough (for me) that
> > he told Ron and Hermione about Snape's memories
Lealess: 
> Did he?  When?  In the big dueling scene?

Carol: 
> > that he publicly vindicated him
> Lealess:
> It read more to me that he was rubbing into Voldemort's face that 
> Snape was really Dumbledore's man all along and that Snape loved 
> Harry's mother, so there, Voldemort ... like Voldemort even cared!  
> Oh, yeah, Voldemort did care; somewhere along the line, he told 
Snape 
> a pureblood woman would have been better for him (sorry for the 
> sarcasm, but I can't help it here).
> 
> > and that he named his second son after him and
> > Dumbledore, the other imperfect and forgiven headmaster.

Lealess:
> Severus is Al's non-used middle name and what else?  Had Harry 
never 
> before told Al how brave Snape the Slytherin was?  Al is 11 years 
> old, after all.  (I don't want to get into Dumbledore and Harry's 
> relationship, frankly... it's another whole discussion.)
> 
> My point is that some people can read a lot into very little, can 
> even inject events and messages which may not be there.  I envy 
> people the ability to do that, but I am not going to do it myself.  
> And I hope you realize that am not personally criticizing you, who 
I 
> respect.  I just find extrapolations of data interesting.



Alla:

So I just want to strongly disagree that the praise of DH means wish 
fulfillment or filling in the blanks for what JKR meant to do but did 
not.

I left in that exchange between you and Carol (hoping that I 
correctly attributed Carol's words and yours) for a reason.

Say everything that Carol said is not correct ( for the sake of 
argument only,Carol). I mean, obviously with completed canon we 
cannot say what is correct, or not, every reader's imagination, 
expectation, reading is different.

But say that everything that Carol argued is not what JKR intended 
and you are right, Harry did not publicly vindicate the Snape, etc, 
etc, did not see Snape and Draco clearly, etc.


I mean, no I cannot say it even for the sake of argument, I think it 
is at least clear that Harry somehow changed his view about Snape, no?


But say Harry did not experience any profound heart change about 
Snape and Draco, he just respects Snape for his bravery and still 
thinks they are the biggest gits on Earth.


That IS what you read in canon, yes?

My point is that I consider Harry change of heart or NOT change of 
heart towards Snape and Draco to be so very **tiny** part of the 
story that I do not care either way.

I think Carol's reading is plausible and yours is plausible too.

But to me Harry Potter books had **NEVER** been the stories of Draco 
and Snape OR the stories of Slytherin House fall and redemption.

To me they had always been stories about **Harry Potter** first and 
foremost, and everybody else ( Yes, I know Snape is important to the 
plot, but I still think of him same way as other characters) is just 
a supporting player on Harry's journey.

So, what I was looking for in DH just as every other book is the 
satisfying resolution for Harry's journey first and foremost.

I believe I got it all there straight on the page, I do not think it 
is wish fulfillment.

I got Harry fighting, growing, falling in love, experiencing 
tremendous loss, grieving, laughing, I got all of that in tremendous 
amounts.

I am happy indeed.

So, no, not wish fullfilment, except maybe in a sense that I got 
Harry survive.


Obviously JMO,

Alla