Disappointment

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 177505

> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> Obviously now that we're at the end we know it was just a 
> foreshadowing of the DA. They joined all three together and left 
> Slytherin out as the common enemy to bring the other three 
together, 
> just like the Founders did. I, personally, was wrong to think that 
> that song's warning and Harry's 'fat chance' about working with 
> Malfoy was foreshadowing they would work together.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Well, of course. I mean, certainly the song could be interpreted as 
call for house unity. What I disagree with ( in general) that there 
was anything else in the books to argue that House Unity is coming.

As I said, I had nothing against it at the end, if it were to come, 
although I was totally convinced that it will not come till House 
Slytherin will extinguish its evil ideology and I think half of it is 
done and the signs that it may come is there too.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
> If somebody argued now that House Unity actually happened so the 
> school all stood as one, then I would disagree with that 
> interpretation. <SNIP>

Alla:

Of course not, at least not yet IMO.


 
> Alla:
> > 
> > But I never ever would call writer a bad one because he or she 
say 
> > did not bring the storyline to the conclusion I wanted.
> 
> Magpie:
> No, but I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say something 
was 
> a bad book because you thought the storyline was brought to an 
> unsatisfactory conclusion. 
> 
> To use another book series for example, I think the twist at the 
end 
> of the Dark is Rising is bad. I didn't have a specific desire for 
the 
> series, I just didn't like that twist at the end. I don't like it 
> personally, but I also just don't think it's a good idea period. It 
> doesn't ruin the ending because it's not connected to what came 
> before.

Alla:

So would that cause you to call Susan Cooper a bad writer? Obviously 
not from our OTC discussion, right? Because you think plot twist at 
the end is bad, do you think the books were written less beatifully, 
less heart wretchingly, etc?

Would you buy that someone else calls Susan Cooper a bad writer 
because they did not like plot twist at the end?

I am also not sure what does it mean :

Magpie: 
> doesn't ruin the ending because it's not connected to what came 
> before.

Alla:

That plot twist did not ruin books for you because it came out of the 
blue? Because for me it was very nicely foreshadowed through the 
books. Although I hated it too and still love the books.

Just as epilogue in HP for me delivered perfectly what I expected - 
happy ending to Harry's journey and him getting what he wanted all 
his life, what seems like a biggest gift for him - family
 
> Magpie:
<SNIP>
There were a lot of times in DH 
> that I thought aspects of the book were dreadful. I wasn't drawn 
into 
> the book or fascinated by it. I didn't cry or get emotionally 
> involved in it. I still give JKR credit for the talent she has, but 
I 
> think my disappointment in DH went far beyond not having plot 
twists 
> that I wanted to see happen. They were really more about not liking 
> the stuff there.

Alla:

Well, sure, as I said, I totally get it then, just not sure what to 
debate. You did not like the story itself. I understand.

 
> Magpie:
<SNIP>
> If a writer raises an expectation and delivers something else and 
the 
> thing she actually did deliver still leaves me saying, "I'm more 
> interested in that other thing," that's a misstep. <SNIP> 

Alla:

Well, sure, it may be, or maybe reader expected something that writer 
was never interested in and misread the signs, you know?

As I said, I expected more storytime for Marauders and Snape past ( 
prank). I think I totally misread the signs of JKR being much 
interested in them. NOT that I expected them to overpower Harry's 
story, just something more significant.

I am not calling it a misstep on JKR's behalf. Or evil Snape - same 
thing. JKR was obviously interested in showing how Snape's love for 
Lily affected his life journey ( not that I did not see that it is 
coming, LOLLYPOPS I mean, I just thought it would come with Evil or 
OFH Snape).

Same thing - no way I would call it misstep on JKR's behalf. IMO of 
course.

Magpie:
> As to what it has to do with JKR as a writer, well, speaking in a 
> generic term, choosing what to write about is part of being a 
> storyteller, so if somebody thinks the author avoided the good 
stuff 
> that's a criticism of her as a writer. 

Alla:

I keep bringing up Tolstoy, but it is just because I reread that book 
so very often. I think he avoided good stuff by killing Prince Andrew.

If somebody tells me that this means Tolstoy is a bad writer, if I 
thought that, I would expect people to laugh and I think they would 
be correct.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
My criticisms of Draco's 
> storyline aren't just that he didn't do X that I imagined him 
doing, 
> but that I thought he was all over the place with no purpose, he 
> confused me and seemed pointless whenever he showed up and just 
> petered out after a really good beginning in the first chapter.

Alla:

THIS I totally understand and see where you coming from.

Magpie:
 And 
> that it was a waste of the set up in HBP, yes. That did raise my 
> expectations for him to make an important choice. JKR seemed to 
> instead want the point to be that he was frozen, which is her 
choice 
> but led for me to the Malfoys being pretty boring and left me 
feeling 
> like this coming of age series regressed.

<SNIP>


Alla:

And this - not at all. Didn't you said that you go back to reread the 
scenes with another expectations in mind? Now we know that set up in 
HBP was set up for something different. So how is it a waste of time 
if it worked for different choice that author made?

JMO,

Alla


Potioncat:
<SNIP>
> I do agree strongly, that whatever one's viewpoint, one should be 
> able to voice it, and those who feel differently should 
respectfully 
> promote their opinions without disparaging others. 
> 
> As to "one little post stirring up this big pot." Well, in my 
opinion 
> at least, that's far better than having one little post met with a 
> thundering silence. Listen, can you hear it?
>

Alla:

Thank you dear :). I am very strongly convinced though that if one 
posts here, one should expect their opinions to be challenged. I 
NEVER 
tried to change anybody's mind and obviously not going to, but if 
person says the book is bad BECAUSE and that because is not something 
I 
see in the text, I am going to say so.

And vice versa is true of course. If I say the book is good BECAUSE  
and somebody does not see it in the text, they should be able to say 
so.

Oh, and yeah, if somebody wishes for me to ignore their posts, do let 
me know LOL. 

Believe me, I do NOT argue just for the sake of arguing and do not 
want 
to hurt anybody's feelings.

BUT there are times I will be arguing a lot.

:)

Alla