Disappointment

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 177506

> Alla:
> 
> Well, of course. I mean, certainly the song could be interpreted 
as 
> call for house unity. What I disagree with ( in general) that 
there 
> was anything else in the books to argue that House Unity is coming.
> 
> As I said, I had nothing against it at the end, if it were to 
come, 
> although I was totally convinced that it will not come till House 
> Slytherin will extinguish its evil ideology and I think half of it 
is 
> done and the signs that it may come is there too.

Magpie:
And I think it didn't happen, and it isn't supposed to happen, and 
it's no more done than it was at the beginning of PS/SS. 

The Sorting Hat's song IS a call for House Unity. That's explicit. 
It's just not a sign that it is a call that is going to be listened 
to and followed in the story. But while it didn't pan out as a sign 
that that was going to happen in canon, compared to the supposed 
signs that it's halfway there in the epilogue it could have been 
written on Stone Tablets, imo. Not only is it a warning given by an 
authority figure that says if they don't do this the school will 
fall, it's halfway through the series and we can see whether or not 
it pans out (it doesn't). The stuff from the epilogue is like moving 
the Sorting Hat's warning to the last three pages, and reducing it 
to Harry's son saying, "I'd leave school if I ever had to unify with 
the other houses!" and Harry replying that that's a little extreme 
to leave school, but that it's not something he would have to worry 
about anyway because he won't have to be friends with anybody in 
other houses unless he wants to...and then claiming that House Unity 
happened or is happening before our eyes.

 
> Magpie:
> <SNIP>
> > If somebody argued now that House Unity actually happened so the 
> > school all stood as one, then I would disagree with that 
> > interpretation. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Of course not, at least not yet IMO.

Magpie:
Not yet and not ever as far as we'll ever know, imo. Not only is the 
book over, the story's been over for 19 years.


> > Magpie:
> > No, but I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say 
something 
> was 
> > a bad book because you thought the storyline was brought to an 
> > unsatisfactory conclusion. 
> > 
> > To use another book series for example, I think the twist at the 
> end 
> > of the Dark is Rising is bad. I didn't have a specific desire 
for 
> the 
> > series, I just didn't like that twist at the end. I don't like 
it 
> > personally, but I also just don't think it's a good idea period. 
It 
> > doesn't ruin the ending because it's not connected to what came 
> > before.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> So would that cause you to call Susan Cooper a bad writer? 
Obviously 
> not from our OTC discussion, right? Because you think plot twist 
at 
> the end is bad, do you think the books were written less 
beatifully, 
> less heart wretchingly, etc?
> 
> Would you buy that someone else calls Susan Cooper a bad writer 
> because they did not like plot twist at the end?

Magpie:
No, I wouldn't call her a bad writer because of that, as I said. I 
think "she's a bad writer" is far too blanket a statement to refer 
to her doing one plot twist a person didn't like if you like 
everything else.

Alla:
> 
> I am also not sure what does it mean :
> 
> Magpie: 
> > doesn't ruin the ending because it's not connected to what came 
> > before.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> That plot twist did not ruin books for you because it came out of 
the 
> blue? Because for me it was very nicely foreshadowed through the 
> books. Although I hated it too and still love the books.

Magpie:
It doesn't shed a different light on any of the themes or things 
that came before it and there's nothing after it. Knowing that 
Merriman is going to remove the Drews' memories doesn't change 
what's going on when I re-read it. 

Alla:

> 
> Just as epilogue in HP for me delivered perfectly what I expected -
 
> happy ending to Harry's journey and him getting what he wanted all 
> his life, what seems like a biggest gift for him - family

Magpie:
That's exactly what it gave me too. Nothing about House Unity or 
social change in the WW. Harry has obtained his middle class 
existance with a family--that was the goal and that's what he got, 
which imo says something very clear about the meaning and priorities 
of the story. TDiR ends with the suggestion that man will now be in 
control of the world, and that the human characters will have the 
responsibility of making their world a better place whether they 
remember the specifics or not. 

> > Magpie:
> <SNIP>
> > If a writer raises an expectation and delivers something else 
and 
> the 
> > thing she actually did deliver still leaves me saying, "I'm more 
> > interested in that other thing," that's a misstep. <SNIP> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, sure, it may be, or maybe reader expected something that 
writer 
> was never interested in and misread the signs, you know?
> 
> As I said, I expected more storytime for Marauders and Snape past 
( 
> prank). I think I totally misread the signs of JKR being much 
> interested in them. NOT that I expected them to overpower Harry's 
> story, just something more significant.

Magpie:
Yes, I agree she was just never interested in them. But I think 
there's a grey area where it's not just about the reader having 
unreasonable expectations. If somebody is reading the book and is 
far more interested in other stuff than the stuff that's going on, 
it can mean that the stuff going on isn't interesting. Like, I 
thought we'd find out more about the Prank, but I had no specific 
expectations for it. However I thought the answer that I did get was 
lame and killed the interest I'd had to begin with. This could be 
because the answer wasn't satisfying, or else because it wasn't 
presented in a satisfying way. I had predicted LOLLIPOPS and think 
it was a good idea, but the handling of it fell flat for me. To 
contrast, the revelations at the end of GoF and PoA don't fall flat 
for me. 

 
> Magpie:
> > As to what it has to do with JKR as a writer, well, speaking in 
a 
> > generic term, choosing what to write about is part of being a 
> > storyteller, so if somebody thinks the author avoided the good 
> stuff 
> > that's a criticism of her as a writer. 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I keep bringing up Tolstoy, but it is just because I reread that 
book 
> so very often. I think he avoided good stuff by killing Prince 
Andrew.
> 
> If somebody tells me that this means Tolstoy is a bad writer, if I 
> thought that, I would expect people to laugh and I think they 
would 
> be correct.

Magpie:
Tolstoy is a good writer but you don't agree with his decision about 
Prince Andrew. But someone's response to DH may not be like that 
situation. There's a difference between "I think he avoided some 
good stuff by doing this" and "The author wrote a tedious book about 
stuff I wasn't and couldn't get interested in." That's why somebody 
might like War & Peace and not like DH. Also some things getting 
avoided are more important than others and go more to the heart of 
the book. Endings can have a huge affect on how the rest of the book 
reads. Sometimes you realize you were wrong about something and you 
adapt and enjoy what the author was writing. Sometimes you realize 
you were just wasting your time thinking there was something 
interesting there when there wasn't for you.

> Magpie:
>  And 
> > that it was a waste of the set up in HBP, yes. That did raise my 
> > expectations for him to make an important choice. JKR seemed to 
> > instead want the point to be that he was frozen, which is her 
> choice 
> > but led for me to the Malfoys being pretty boring and left me 
> feeling 
> > like this coming of age series regressed.

> Alla:
> 
> And this - not at all. Didn't you said that you go back to reread 
the 
> scenes with another expectations in mind? Now we know that set up 
in 
> HBP was set up for something different. So how is it a waste of 
time 
> if it worked for different choice that author made?

Magpie:
Because it didn't work, imo. When I go back and read the earlier 
scenes knowing where the author was actually going it doesn't make 
it make a different kind of sense, it just makes the earlier scenes 
pointless too.  It turned out the interesting bits were by accident, 
that everyone's motivations were flatter. I think the flaw here is 
more in the story than in my as a reader on this one. It's the type 
of thing one would see in a review all the time. So in this case I 
don't think the author handled the storyline very well, and I think 
the storyline was a weak choice to begin with. 

-m