Dumbledore's Plan/Deaths in DH/Catharsis

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 177532

> lizzyben:
> Regarding DD as God-figure: JKR has called him God-like. I don't 
> think he's God. But he serves as a metaphor for God. In DH, Harry 
> loses his faith in God, wanders in the wilderness without guidance, 
> and feels that the signs his God has left him are useless. He 
> wonders if God ever loved him at all. After Harry's crisis of
> faith, he eventually chooses to submit to God's will & show 
> obedience to God's plan, sacrificing his life for the good of the 
> world. As a reward, he receives God's love & approval; and returns
> to earth as a Christ-figure. In that sense, it works well as a
> Christian allegory. 

Jen:  This one section caught my eye because I found it an intriguing 
imagery - did Harry indeed follow these steps?  I took a look myself 
and found this:

> Lizzyben: 
> But he serves as a metaphor for God. In DH, Harry loses his faith in
> God... 

DH: "Dumbledore's betrayl was almost nothing.  Of course there had 
been a bigger plan; Harry had simply been too foolish to see it, he 
realized that now. [...] How neat, how elegant, not to waste any more 
lives, but to give the dangerous task to the boy who had already been 
marked for slaughter, and whose death would not be a calamity, but 
another blow against Voldemort." (DH, chap. 34, p. 693, Am ed.)

Jen:  Harry didn't appear to lose faith in Dumbledore: 'his betrayl 
was almost nothing,' and Harry goes on to agree with Dumbledore's 
neat and elegant plan.  

> Lizzyben: 
> wanders in the wilderness wihtout guidance...

DH: "Dumbledore knew, as Voldemort knew, that Harry would not let 
anyone else die for him now that he had discovered it was in his 
power to stop it." (p. 693)

"But he pulled himself together again: This was crucial, he must be 
like Dumbledore, keep a cool head, make sure there were back-ups, 
others to carry on."  (p. 696)

Jen:  Harry is keeping his own counsel here, making his own 
decisions. 

> Lizzyben:
> ....and feels that the signs his God has left him are useless.

DH: "The Snitch.  His nerveless fingers fumbled for a moment with the 
pouch at his neck and he pulled it out.  *I open at the close*.  He 
pressed the golden metal to his lips and whispered, "I am about to 
die." (p. 698)

Jen:  Harry believes the sign Dumbledore left him, the one that has 
been a mystery to him the entire year, is very significant and 
valuable in the moment when he understands the meaning of it.

> Lizzyben:
>He wonders if God ever loved him at all. 

Jen: Harry does wonder if Dumbledore the man ever loved him in a 
prior chapter, not in the forest: "I don't know who he loved, 
Hermione, but it was never me." (chap. 18, p. 362)

Lizzyben:
> After Harry's crisis of faith, he eventually chooses to submit to 
> God's will & show obedience to God's plan.

Jen: Per above quotes, Harry doesn't seem to experience a crisis of 
faith and does decide on his own the action he'll take.  Harry says 
that Dumbledore knew what he, Harry, would choose to do once he had 
all the facts in hand, not that Harry felt manipulated into doing 
something he didn't agree was best. 

> Lizzyben:
> ...sacrificing his life for the good of the world.

Jen: As quoted before, Harry believes only that handing himself over 
to Voldemort will stop the killing going on in the moment because he 
is the one Voldemort wants, and that Harry has left three individuals 
to carry on with eliminating the last Horcrux.  Nothing about saving 
the WW is on Harry's mind at that moment.  In fact, he thinks by 
leaving a Horcrux he has failed: "But Dumbledore had overestimated 
him. He had failed:  The snake survived."  (chap. 34, p. 693) 

> Lizzyben:
> As a reward, he receives God's love & approval; and returns to
> earth as a Christ-figure. 

Jen: I assume you are talking about when Dumbledore meets him at 
King's Cross?  I believe Harry always had Dumbledore's love and 
approval regardless of what Harry believed throughout DH.  So he is 
not gaining something back he lost or never had when Dumbledore 
greets him.  In fact, the opposite is true, Dumbledore believes that 
Harry hates him: 

"You know what happened.  You know.  You cannot despise me more than 
I despise myself."

"But I don't despise you -"

"Then you should," said Dumbledore. (chap. 35, p. 715)


>lizzyben:
> ...and returns to earth as a Christ-figure.

Jen: Others have addressed this point.  I honestly don't see as much 
Christian symbolism as others did to have much of an opinion here. 

Lizzyben:
> Yes, the "Power the Dark Lord knows not" came down to a super-
> powerful Wand. Harry gained the allegiance of an amoral power, and 
> that power, gained by force, allowed him to take out LV. The 
> whole "love" speculation was just silliness. Harry never entered 
> the locked room. He never had to learn how to love someone to beat
> LV. He didn't have to show compassion to beat LV. He just needed 
> force. 

Jen: Except for Harry choosing to turn himself over to Voldemort so 
the killing would stop, and ensuring there were others who could 
destroy the last Horcrux and defeat Voldemort after he was gone (thus 
stopping more killing and oppression), and Harry being joined by his 
loved ones in the forest, and carried out by Hagrid who loved him 
dearly - except for those moments, then yes, there was no love at 
all. ;)  Harry's power wasn't the allegiance of the Elder Wand, it 
was the allegiance of humans, beasts and beings who believed in him 
and he in them.  

Jen