Suspension of disbelief -Idiots of War

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 182407

> 
> Magpie:
> We've pretty much all been using the shorthand of "kids" to refer to 
> Harry's generation and "adults" to mean those out of school. The 
> same distinction that's been made throughout canon. 

Pippin:
Yes, JKR makes us think of them  as kids, but they're not  kids in the
eyes of their society (except for Molly.) Umbridge pretends to think
they're just kids, but remember, her real fear is that Dumbledore is
training them to be  fighting force. That paradox forces us to see an
ancient truth with new eyes:

 "War violates the order of nature and causes parents to bury their
children "-- Herodotus. 

The senior generation did what they could, IMO, but it's always been
the younger generation that's had to fight wars. JKR makes us feel
again how wrong and unfair that is, as if we'd never known it before.
That's what good fantasy is supposed to do. 
 
> Magpie:
> We're just disagreeing that JKR set up a situation where everyone
was powerless and paralyzed to do anything  but wait for Harry. And
that this was playing it like a realistic  war story. 

Pippin:
I don't see how you can acknowledge that in real life there are times
when  people feel they are paralyzed and powerless to do anything, and
yet say that if JKR puts that in her story, it's not realistic. 
 
> Magpie:
> The Order wasn't in disarray at all. 

Pippin:
Excuse me? The enemy leader  is invulnerable, their government has
fallen in a silent coup, they've been horribly betrayed, Voldemort
knows all their identities, two of their leaders have been killed one
after the other, they've been ambushed, and they have no idea how the
enemy is learning their plans. 

Their last instruction from Dumbledore was that Harry is their best
hope. Harry says he has instructions from Dumbledore, he trusts them
all, but he can't tell them what he's doing. 

If that's not disarray, what is? 

They're not fighting a conventional war where there's lots of ways to
cripple the enemy. The only way to destroy Voldemort's war machine is
to destroy Voldemort. They have no idea how that's to be done, but
apparently Harry does. If they don't trust Dumbledore or Harry any
more, they're going to feel even more betrayed and powerless for ever
trusting them in the first place. They're not going to feel they can
do something new -- not for a long time, anyway.

> 
> Pippin:
> > I can see where it seems stupid that if there were all these
people willing to help they couldn't have helped Harry more directly.
But how could he rally them to help when he himself wasn't sure he
could  trust Dumbledore, and yet the only credibility he had was
Dumbledore's authority and a prophecy he didn't understand? 
> 
> Magpie:
> I don't see why that was a problem when it came to Horcruxes.

Pippin:
Harry: I don't believe in Dumbledore's plan, because otherwise I would
have kept this secret  like he wanted,  but he said I have to round up
all these horcrux thingies and destroy them. I've decided I'm too much
of a wimp, so I'd rather you lot did it. I should tell you that they
may be  cursed, some of them are incredibly precious objects that are
heavily guarded, and they can possess anybody who isn't filled with
the power of love.  Oh, and the prophesy says I have to be the one to
kill Voldemort, unless he kills me first, except Dumbledore said it
doesn't mean that unless I think it does. But Voldemort can't be
killed till we get rid of the horcrux thingies, so while you're out
risking yournecks and being turned into zombies, I'll just, um, hang
around the burrow with Ginny and snog, shall I? Right!

Somehow I don't think the Order would be inspired.<g>
They'd have no real reason to keep trusting in Dumbledore's plans if
Harry didn't, not after what happened with Snape. Besides which,
Harry's habit of saying "Voldemort" would have gotten them all killed. <g>

> Magpie:
> Of course he could have asked his friends to help him-he has his 
> dearest with him the whole time.

Pippin:
Sorry, no. Ginny is Harry's Weezy now. And he didn't ask Ron and
Hermione to help him, they insisted. 

Magpie:

 Or the Order--one might have 
> expected Dumbledore to have asked them. He certainly could have 
> trusted Lupin--Lupin "not trusting himself" sounds tragic and all, 
> but it's not like hunting objects and destroying him would be beyond 
> him.

Pippin:
::boggles:: Look at what the locket was able to make of Ron's
perfectly normal insecurities, and then ask yourself what it would do
to Lupin. Even Harry could bring out the wolf with a well-chosen
insult or two. What a horcrux could manage, I dread to think.

Magpie:
 Another person might have had *Dumbledore* approach the Horcrux 
> problem a different way. That's essentially what started the thread, 
> I think. He's the general.

Pippin:
You don't think it's realistic to have a spymaster whose passion for
secrecy creates problems for his own organization?  Or who would have
turned to a young person to do the impossible?

As I've already pointed out,  there was a real life Admiral who chose
young people when she had to prove the impossible wasn't. I see I
neglected to mention why. They were smart and gifted kids, but it
wasn't because they were more gifted than their older counterparts. It
was because they didn't have the training or experience to know what
couldn't be done -- so they did it. 

As of the end of HBP, the horcrux task looked hopeless to most of us.
There's a good chance the Order would have viewed it the same way. 

Of course Harry did need an incredible amount of luck to succeed,
despite the horcruxes not being as well-protected as Voldemort thought
-- but how else do you win against the odds?

Pippin