Suspension of disbelief -Idiots of War

horridporrid03 horridporrid03 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 4 18:19:43 UTC 2008


No: HPFGUIDX 182408

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
>  "War violates the order of nature and causes parents to bury their
> children "-- Herodotus. 
> The senior generation did what they could, IMO, but it's always been
> the younger generation that's had to fight wars.

Betsy Hp:
Except in this story, the older generation did nothing, died, and 
left their kid to fix everything.  I mean, Harry's parents didn't 
even have the presence of mind to arm themselves.  And we're supposed 
to believe it's the child burying his parents (well, at least having 
his parents die) that made Harry so superduper special he could take 
down Voldemort.  (Who apparently didn't kill anyone elses parents.  
But was still really, really scary.  And unstoppable.)

The younger generation of this story didn't fight any war.  They 
followed their parent's lead: stick your head really far up your ass 
and call for Harry.
 
> >>> Magpie:
> > We're just disagreeing that JKR set up a situation where everyone
> > was powerless and paralyzed to do anything  but wait for Harry.   
> > And that this was playing it like a realistic  war story. 

> >>Pippin:
> I don't see how you can acknowledge that in real life there are    
> times when  people feel they are paralyzed and powerless to do      
> anything, and yet say that if JKR puts that in her story, it's not 
> realistic. 

Betsy Hp:
What was unrealistic was JKR had an *entire nation* be paralyzed and 
powerless.  For *years*.  An Auror or an Order member or any number 
of WW soldiers feel paralyzed and powerless a time or two? Sure, I 
can see that.  That they *all* feel paralyzed and powerless and 
that's all she wrote?  Lame, lame, totally lame.  And also, not 
believeable.  IMO.

> >>Pippin:
> They're not fighting a conventional war where there's lots of ways 
> to cripple the enemy. The only way to destroy Voldemort's war       
> machine is to destroy Voldemort.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Conventional or not, generally one wins a war by engaging the enemy.  
It's a wacky idea, I know, but maybe if the Order (or the Aurors) had 
fought against Voldemort and his Death Eaters?  Maybe they'd have 
figured something out?  I know, I know.  Voldemort's really, really 
scary.  And unstoppable.  Which makes me wonder who the rube was 
running around declaiming and being a giant joke in DH.  But that's 
me. 
 
> >>Pippin:
> > I can see where it seems stupid that if there were all these
> > people willing to help they couldn't have helped Harry more      
> > directly. But how could he rally them to help when he himself    
> > wasn't sure he could  trust Dumbledore, and yet the only         
> > credibility he had was Dumbledore's authority and a prophecy he   
> > didn't understand? 

> >>Magpie:
> > I don't see why that was a problem when it came to Horcruxes.

> >>Pippin:
> Harry: I don't believe in Dumbledore's plan, because otherwise I   
> would have kept this secret  like he wanted,  but he said I have to 
> round up all these horcrux thingies and destroy them.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
See, this strikes me as such a cult of personality.  Harry is 
supposed to blindly trust Dumbledore because without Dumbledore, he's 
got no credibility.  Harry has to do it all on his own because 
*Dumbledore told him to*.  This is part of the reason I don't see 
this series as a coming of age tale.  Harry remains Dumbledore's good 
little baby boy: obedient even unto death.  And that's how he wins.

(Huh...  A sign of Tom's evilness was his independence...  I think 
there's something there, actually.  Perhaps JKR is saying we 
*shouldn't* grow up?)

I'd have rather seen Harry assigned a task (destroy the horcruxes) 
and have him figure out how he was going to do it on his own.  Not 
try and figure out how Dumbledore wanted him to do it.  (After all, 
Dumbledore died during the war.  Yet another parental figure Harry 
had to bury.  Because of the war or nature or something being 
violated. <g>)

> >>Magpie:
> > Of course he could have asked his friends to help him-he has his 
> > dearest with him the whole time.

> Pippin:
> Sorry, no. Ginny is Harry's Weezy now.

Betsy Hp:
Odd that Voldemort didn't figure that out.  Being so super scary and 
unstoppable and all. <g>  (I'd say Ginny's more Harry's womb, but 
that might just be JKR's creepy epilogue talking.)

> >>Pippin:
> And he didn't ask Ron and Hermione to help him, they insisted. 

Betsy Hp:
And Dumbledore told him to. <g>

> >>Pippin: 
> As of the end of HBP, the horcrux task looked hopeless to most of   
> us.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Erm... No it didn't.  It looked *lame* to a lot of us (at least, 
that's how I remember the list falling out pre-DH), but it didn't 
look hopeless.  Heck, most of the list had the horcruxes figured 
out.  Even down to the Ravenclaw horcrux's location in the RoR.

Myself, I hoped the horcruxes would be used to get Harry to learn to 
work with others.  But, I was still hoping for a coming of age tale.

> >>Pippin:
> Of course Harry did need an incredible amount of luck to succeed,
> despite the horcruxes not being as well-protected as Voldemort      
> thought -- but how else do you win against the odds?

Betsy Hp:
Fight against an idiot supervillain who, though he knows you've got a 
mind link directly to his, lists through the information needed to 
kill him exactly when you need him to? <bg>

Betsy Hp (running out the door, so hoping this makes sense and 
doesn't offend anyone... it's all my opinion, just my opinion!! <rbg>)





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