Suspension of disbelief -Idiots of War

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 182465

I'm really sorry to re-post, but the typos just made it impossible to 
understand. Sometimes I type words that sound like the word I want, 
but are not related so make no sense.

> > Magpie:
> > There's no indication this idea is stopping anybody from doing
> > anything. Nobody is afraid that the rain in the office is going
to
> > get anyone killed that we see. It's handled pretty much the way
the
> > pranks against Umbridge are.
>
> Pippin:
> The Twins tell Harry in OOP that they always consider what kind of
> retaliation they are going to face. They had been careful up to that
> point not to do anything that would get them expelled. I don't see
why
> Rowling should have to write OOP over again -- that's the in depth
> look at what living under an oppressive government is like. We see
> enough in DH to suggest that the same kinds of things are happening,
> only on a larger scale.

Magpie:
No, I don't think we see anything in DH that suggests the same things
are happening on a larger scale (outside Hogwarts). They are
happening on a smaller scale. If we're to take the Twins' reasoning
as an explanation, this is because everyone considered the kind of
retaliation they were going to face and were careful not to do
anything that would get get Voldemort to angry. 

Pippin:
> We see Voldemort engage in massive retaliation against his own DE's
> for the theft of the cup, and he threatens it against
Hogwarts:"Anyone
> who continues to resist, man, woman or child,will be slaughtered as
> will every member of their family." We're also told that Voldemort's
> wrath over the destruction of the diary was terrible to behold, and
> that he set Draco at Dumbledore as a way to punish Lucius.

Magpie:
Yes, I see what he does to his own DEs. They're the ones who are
displeasing him, the one's actually dealing with him. (And the way he 
knocks them down is yet another vulnerable point never exploited, one 
that I actually expected to be pre-DH when I thought there would be a 
wider war story.) I don't see that as some reason why everybody else 
is making sure not to put a toe too far out of line. Voldemort's 
people are killing people and putting them in jail for various other 
reasons.


> Pippin:
> You're saying it would be *harder* for Harry to give himself up to
> someone who was right? Because otherwise I don't see why we should
care.

Magpie:
Yeah, I'm saying that martyring yourself heroically to save others
similar to the way Jesus did would be far less humbling because it
requires none of the reassessment of himself than the storyline Betsy
had talked about pre-DH and post-DH. JKR may agree and may not have
enjoyed writing that as much either for all I know. I know which one
your average Mary Sue author would prefer, for instance. If you're 
playing the part of Jesus, that's a step up. 

Carol:

I know that you're arguing against certain points that Pippin made
here, so please forgive me for ignoring those points and focusing only
on the "rain" in Yaxley's office. Admittedly, such pranks are not on
the scale of resistance that you're looking for, but they *are*
resistance of the same sort that the weasley Twins and Lee Jordan
practiced against the Umbridge regime at Hogwarts.

Magpie:
Yes, I agree. Making it rain in somebody's office is, imo, similar to
kids sticking whatever those things were in Umbridge's office etc. Or 
like a lot of the Muggle-baiting things we've seen.

-m