Suspension of disbelief - Being dependent

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 182487

---  "Carol" <justcarol67 at ...> wrote:
>
> Mike wrote:
> > ,snip> I do think JKR tried to paint Voldemort as a very 
> >powerful and demonic figure. What with all that "you-know-
> >who" BS, we were supposed to believe that everyone except 
> >Dumbledore was scared of him, and even Dumbledore admits 
> >that Tom knows more vile, evil magic than he does. 
> 
> > But, she failed and she failed in DH specifically because 
> > we got to see sooo much more of him ...
> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> I'd say that she does more than that, with LV's ability to possess
> people (SS/Ps and CoS), the magic that restores him first to fetal
> form and then to snake-faced human form (GoF), the Inferi and that
> horrible potion in HBP, his Legilimency (introduced in OoP and shown
> to be really invasive and horrible--all that it's cracked up to be
> and more--in DH--and, BTW, Snape's Occlumency is indeed "superb" to
> withstand it); all the original Order members killed off or
> disappearing (OoP); the duel with DD in OoP, which might have been
> a stand-off if it hadn't been for the arrival of the Aurors and 
> would have resulted in disaster for Possessed!Harry had not his 
> ability to love been unendurable. And, of course, Horcruxes are 
> pretty horrible in themselves, and his early powers (telekinesis,
> control of animals, making people feel pain without a wand) 
> indicate that he really is more than usually gifted, with the 
> potential and the personality to become evil and dangerous (HBP).
> The flying without a broom in DH is interesting but not 
> particularly dark; Snape can do it, too, but the control of 
> Nagini ("Dinner, Nagini!") is pretty horrifying and sets us
> up for more confrontations with this most loathsome of Horcruxes.
> (Bathilda!Nagini is perhaps the most horrifying bit of Dark 
> magic in the entire series.) I don't know about you, but I was
> also spellbound by Ron's confrontation with the locket Horcrux, 
> which shows Tom Riddle's ability to read others' thoughts and 
> psychologically manipulate them (the diary redux). What I don't
> see, though, is any spectacular magic (...) being performed by 
> the Elder Wand. Voldemort relies on his old
> stand-bys, AK and Crucio ...

bboyminn:

Once again, not contradicting Carol, but merely using her post
as a jumping off point.

I think the real world serves as a nice model for the fictional
world, though some seem to forget that. Look at all the real
and cruel dictators in the real world. Why are they scary?
Not because they do anything particularly scary themselves, but
because they are the instrument by which scary evil things get
done. 

Take Hitler for example, Hitler was a dork, why should we be
scared of him, or consider him evil, he probably personally
kill or tortured very few people. Yet, countless people were
killed and tortured by his order, and that is what makes him
scary and evil. Hitler was a great orator, charismatic and
clever. He excelled at getting people to willingly do his
bidding, even when his bidding was the most evil and illogical
of things. 

Hitler, like all dictators, displayed a personal ruthlessness 
that intimidated people. You felt that if you did not do his 
bidding, the cost would be extremely high, higher than any 
living person would dare to pay. So, Hitler only had to 
personally kill, maim, or torture a very few people, just enough
to convince anyone who considered opposing him, that the penalty
would be sure, swift, and cruel.

Whether eager or reluctant, Hitler had an outstanding gift for
getting people to do what he asked. Yet, look at Hitler as a 
person, from an objective distance, and he is, as I said, a 
geeky dork. 

The same is true of Voldemort, he is a great orator; powerfully
charismatic, and intimidatingly ruthless. He can tell people 
what they want to hear, twist that message to his own agenda, 
and convince people to do evil and despicable things in his name
and in the name of their seemly common agenda.

Let me pause for a moment for a short, but hopefully relevant,
anecdote. When I was younger, I was studying Karate, and after
practice I went to the most dangerous and redneck bar in town
with some weightlifter/karate friends. They were my ticket in
the door and my safety while I was there. As we talked and 
drank, the subject came up of who was the more dangerous street
fighter, a person trained in Karate or a typical bar-brawler.
To their surprise, I said the bar-brawler, and my friends and
not-so-much friends asked for an explanation.

The explanation was that a karate student CAN hit you, but a
bar-brawler WILL. It is the utter unpredictability of a bar-
brawler that makes them so dangerous, very much like the 
Giants. If you annoy them, they'll punch you out just to 
simplify things.

That is analogous to the DE's and Voldemort, it is not that
they can curse you, it is that they will. When they are 
around, you must walk on eggshells. You must tread every so
lightly and delicately because at the most minor and 
insignificant provocation, they won't hesitate to curse and 
possible kill you and everyone associated with you. That
creates a paralyzing atmosphere of fear and inaction, just
as it does in the real world. 

We do see Voldemort kill a sufficient number of people to 
indicate that he is both dangerous and evil. But more evil
is, either through persuasion or intimidation or magical
coercion, his ability to get evil things done in his name.

In hindsight, looking at Voldemort, Hitler, or any other 
ruthless dictator, we surely ask how and why did this 
happen. What the man was saying and doing was so hopelessly
illogical and irrational, and yet, that charismatic man was
able to accomplish the most despicable things. Things that
in hindsight make no sense at all. 

That is the deep seated evilness of men like this, that they
can get otherwise seemingly rational men to act in the most 
evil and irrational ways. 

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn