The Sword of Gryffindor

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 182600

Geoff wrote:
<snip>
> I'm rather inclined to side with Shelley in that a genuine call for
help would go to the respective House Head.

Carol responds:

Can you show any evidence to support that theory? Granted, Snape comes
running when Moaning calls for help in "Sectumsempra," and it's a
member of his house (Draco Malfoy) who's in trouble, but (if we take
interviews as canon), Myrtle is a Revenclaw, and Snape has promised
two people (DD and Narcissa) that he'll watch and protect Draco. it
could be the fiery bonds of his Unbreakable Vow summoning him to help
Draco as easily as it could be the magic of the school summoning his
Head of House. But there's no evidence of McGonagall's involvement and
every evidence of DD's: Fawkes is his Phoenix and the Sorting Hat is
kept in his office, as is the Sword of Gryffindor afterwards (I don't
know about before because Harry never sees DD's office until after he
kills the Basilisk). Diary!Tom talks about the protections that DD has
sent his defender (a songbird and an old hat), and his explanation is
not questioned or corrected afterwards, and DD speaks in Hagrid's hut
about loyalty to himself (meaning, I take it, that Fawkes will
respond) and the remark below about help coming at Hogwarts "to those
who ask for it." Either DD set up those protections or he knew that
they would come into play. And he made sure that Harry heard his words
before he left Hogwarts. McGonagall, Harry's HoH, had nothing to do
with it. Nor do I recall a single instance of her coming to Harry's or
Ron's or Hermione's aid *unsummoned.* (When Harry has the vision of
Nagini biting Mr. Weasley, Neville runs off to summon McGonagall.)

Geoff: 
> But, looking at Dumbledore's part in this, Carol suggests that
Dumbledore arranged for Fawkes and the Sword to go to Harry's aid
because he knew that Harry would face a basilisk.
> 
> But did he?

<snip>
> "She has been petrified," said Dumbledore ("Ah! I thought so!" said 
> Lockhart). "But how. I cannot say..."
> "Ask him!" shrieked Filch, turning his blotched and tear-stained
> face to Harry.
> "No second year could have done this," said Dumbledore firmly.
>  "It would take magic of the most advanced...."'
> (COS "The Writing on the Wall" p.108 UK edition)

Carol responds:
DD, as we know, doesn't always express his theories out loud, and
Lockhart, Filch, and Harry are present. (He may or may not say
something of his suspicions to Snape, who is also present, and later
discovers that Harry is a Parselmouth.) The writing on the wall this
first time around says, "the Chamber of Secrets has been opened.
Enemies of the Heir, Beware" (COS Am. ed. 138). Dumbledore knows who
opened the Chamber before, and he either knows or has a very shrewd
idea of that "the Heir" is "the Heir of Slytherin," whom he knows to
be Tom Riddle.  

As DD tells McGonagall in the hospital wing when Colin Creevey has
been Petrified, "The question is not *who.* The question is *how*"
(CoS Am. ed. 180). He also confirms that the attack on Colin means
that "the Chamber of Secrets is indeed open again" (180). In short,
Voldemort, has somehow opened the Chamber again and released the same
monster that killed Moaning Myrtle (and which, as I understand it,
also Petrified some victims before it killed Myrtle). But the present
danger is from the monster itself, not from Voldemort, who is
currently vaporized.

Carol earlier, misquoting DD:
> 
> > Now, DD does say that "help will always come at Hogwarts to those
> who need it," but I'm not sure how true that statement is.

Geoff: 
> It isn't. Dumbledore's actual words are:
> '"You will also find that help will always be given at Hogwarts to 
those who ask for it."'

Carol again:

Sorry about the misquotation. I should have looked up the exact
wording, as I did in a previous post in this thread. But the exact
wording has no bearing on my point, which was that I'm not sure that
help is always given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it. Help *is*
however, given to Harry, and it seems from these words and other
evidence that I've cited that the help comes from Dumbledore, not the
Sorting Hat and not Harry's Head of House.

Geoff: 
> Basilisks kill by looking; this much Dumbledore would know. But 
what previous evidence of one of these creatures causing petrification
is there? 

Carol responds:
What evidence is there that any other creature can Petrify its
victims? And last time the monster was released, a girl *did* die,
with no sign of an attack. (IIRC, the monster Petrified some victims
before it killed Myrtle; I don't think that she was the only victim.)
An Acromantula, as the MoM should have known, would have left a bite
mark or eaten its victim. A Manticore or Chimaera is uncontrollable
even by a Dark Wizard, whereas DD would know that a
Parselmouth--whether Slytherin himself or Voldemort--can control a
Basilisk. He would also know that Basilisks can live to a great age,
Herpo the Foul's having reputedly lived for nearly nine hundred years
(FB 4). 

Geoff:
Also, since when did a Basilisk write messages on walls? There is
obviously a human agency at work here, whatever else may be involved.
So, I am not totally swayed by the theory that Dumbledore set up the
Phoenix situation knowing what Harry was likely to face.

Carol responds:
As I said before, he knew that Voldemort, the Heir of Slytherin, was
involved in some way, actually opening the Chamber of Secrets as he
did before and controlling the monster, which only attacks
Muggle-borns (and a Squib's cat) and does not go rampaging through the
corridors as a Chimaera or Manticore would. A Basilisk, in contrast,
*can* be controlled, but only by a Parselmouth. DD also seems to know
that Colin, at least, did not view the monster directly but saw it
through his camera lens. What monster other than a Basilisk could have
turned the film to ashes without destroying the camera as well?
Moreover, DD well knows that the monster was originally placed in the
Chamber of Secrets by Salazar Slytherin, himself a Parselmouth, the
symbol of whose house is a snake, with the expectation that it could
survive for many years, even centuries, until "his own true heir" came
to the school. And DD would know that the monster that would best
serve all these purposes (and could easily be hatched in secret by
Slytherin from a chicken egg hatched beneath a toad) is a Basilisk.
> 
Geoff:
> I reiterate what I suggested previously. What made him think that 
Harry would go looking for the Chamber - or if he did that he would
succeed where others hadn't over the centuries?

Carol responds:

I think I mentioned before that he knows that Harry tried to stop
"Snape" from stealing the Sorcerer's Stone. He has given Harry an
Invisibility Cloak, encouraging him to "use it wisely," and has in
general encouraged his habit of wandering around after hours. He knows
already that Harry and his friends like to solve mysteries or consider
themselves detectives and he says that he's kept a closer eye on Harry
than Harry can imagine (can't remember the exact quote). And once he
learns that Harry, like Voldemort is a Parselmouth and can therefore
find and open the Chamber, as DD himself cannot, and Harry has been
falsely accused of being the Heir of Slytherin and opening the CoS,
and especially after Hermione is Petrified, it's almost a foregone
conclusion that he (and Ron) will attempt it.

If DD doesn't think that Harry is going to enter the Chamber of
Secrets, why on earth does he give that advice about loyalty to
himself and help always coming at Hogwarts to those who ask for it?
What is the point of those remarks, which he hangs back to make before
accompanying Lucius Malfoy and Fudge, if he doesn't think that Harry
(and possibly Ron, who is hiding under the Invisibility Cloak with
him) will attempt to get into the Chamber and that Harry, as a
Parselmouth, has an excellent chance of succeeding where others,
including DD himself, have failed? Harry is "almost sure that
Dumbledore's eyes flickered toward the corner where he and Ron stood
hidden" (264). IOW, DD, whom we know can see beneath Invisibility
Cloaks, is speaking those words for Harry's benefit. (They are
certainly not for Fudge's or Lucius Malfoy's or Hagrid's.)

Geoff: 
> I think that it all revolved on luck and a series of fortunate
coincidences. Much of real life is like that after all.

Carol responds:
I don't deny that luck and coincidence play a role in this series (the
incident with the Snatchers in DH being a case in point), nor that
Harry has more than his share of luck. But Dumbledore's words are
inexplicable if he doesn't suspect that Harry and Ron will attempt to
enter the Chamber of Secrets, especially now that Hermione has been
Petrified, and if he doesn't expect Harry, as a Parselmouth, to
succeed where he has failed. So, anticipating that at some point Harry
will show loyalty to him (perhaps encountering some shadow form of
Voldemort?), he provides his "defender" with Fawkes, the Phoenix, who
can help him fight the Basilisk and heal his wounds. And knowing that
Harry will be facing a monster far beyond his skill to kill with his
wand, he makes sure that Fawkes brings along the "old hat" from which
Harry can draw, after showing need and valor, the Sword of Gryffindor,
which has magical powers of its own beyond a sharp blade. (Sidenote: I
always expected the powers attributed to rubies to come into play but
JKR never mentions them.) How can Fawkes know that the Sword will come
out of the Sorting Hat if DD hasn't told him? (Maybe that can
communicate telepathically since DD can summon him to the MoM, but it
makes more sense that DD, anticipating Harry's actions and his needs,
set up the protections before hand rather than merely relying on what
might happen if Harry called for help. Fawkes, after all, arrives,
Sorting Hat in beak, *before* Harry calls for help.

Geoff: 
> Note two things. Help will be given "at Hogwarts" and also, not to
"those who need" but to those "who ask". Which is a very different
scenario.

Carol:
Yes and no. As I just said, Fawkes arrives *before* Harry asks for
help, and the Sword of Gryffindor is enchanted to help Gryffindors who
show need and valor--nothing there about asking for help. In that
instance, coincidence and luck certainly do come into play, since
Voldemort himself summons the Sorting Hat. But Neville never asks for
help. It comes to him without asking, partly as the result of Harry's
self-sacrifice (which has made Voldemort's magic backfire or fail) and
partly as a result of the spell on the Sword, which deserts the Goblin
Griphook and comes to valiant Neville in his need. But whether help
comes to anyone who asks for it at Hogwarts--a teacher rather than a
student, a Slytherin or Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff rather than a
Gryffindor--I still don't know. I certainly see no evidence that the
HoH will come running. Perhaps you could show me an example other than
Snape saving Draco in "sectumsempra"?

<snip comment on "Ask and it shall be given to you," which suggests
Dumbledore in the role of God, a direction that I don't want to take
in this post>

Geoff: 
> However, as I said in the beginning, my main point was that 
> Dumbledore did not necessarily foresee how events would unfold. 

Carol:
I've already argued that his words in Hagrid's hut indicate otherwise.
I think that he had faith in Harry, but only if Harry had exactly the
sort of help he would need to fight Slytherin's monster. The only
question in my mind is whether he also thought that Harry would
encounter the Heir of Slytherin (Tom Riddle or Voldemort) in some form
and, if so, how he thought that Fawkes and the Sword of Gryffindor
would help him. However, Fawkes swallows an AK intended for Dumbledore
in OoP, so he could have done that in Cos as well. But there is no
doubt in my mind, none at all, that DD knew that Harry would open the
CoS and encounter the Basilisk, or that the help DD supplied was
specifically designed to meet that need.

As for the properties of Phoenixes, in addition to the healing power
of Phoenix tears, one that I mentioned in an earlier post is
particularly relevant with regard to Harry as DD perceives him:
"Phoenix song is magical; it is reputed to increase the courage of the
pure of heart and to strike fear into the hearts of the impure" (32).
We see this particular property at work in the graveyard scene in GoF,
where Harry hears Phoenix song as the result of the brother wands with
their Phoenix-feather cores doing battle. (In CoS, the phoenix song
doesn't so much give him courage as inspire him to call for help, at
which point, the magic comes into play and the Basilisk's tail flicks
the Sorting Hat toward him, he puts it on, calls for help again, and
the Sword falls onto his head. (Perhaps the Sorting Hat hears him and
releases it, but I think that the Sword itself if responding, as it
does for Neville in DH.)

I think there's something in the mythology of Basilisks about
Phoenixes being immune to their poison, but I don't have time to
Google it right now. The narrator, voicing Harry's perspective, asks
rhetorically, "But what chance did a phoenix have against the king of
serpents?" (318). A few moments later, Fawkes answers the question by
blinding the Basilisk.

And there's also the ability of the Phoenix to carry heavy loads,
demonstrated when he carries Harry, Ron, Lockhart, and Ginny, all of
them clinging to his tail feathers or to each other. Harry would need
a way out of the Chamber of Secrets. Fawkes provides that, too.

Geoff:
> It might have been sheer serendipity that he sent Fawkes - if he 
did and the bird didn't act on its own because it sensed Harry's loyalty. 

CaroL:
Sheer serendipity to send a bird whose tears have healing powers,
whose song gives courage to the pure of heart, that can blind a
Basilisk, that can carry heavy loads, that is smart enough to obey
orders such as bringing a Sorting Hat, which surely Fawkes would not
have thought to do on his own?

*If* it were just a matter of loyalty to Dumbledore and *if* Fawkes
had not also brought the Sorting Hat and *if* DD hadn't spoken those
words to Harry (and Ron) in Hagrid's Hut, I'd think that it might just
be serendipity or Fawkes acting on his own. But all those factors
together, combined with Dumbledore's knowledge of Voldemort and
Slytherin and Basilisks, makes me think otherwise.

Geoff:
There is much about Phoenixes of which we are not aware; like much of
the Wizarding World, there is an  'unwritten canon' - for want of a
better term - whose presence we seem to sense but which we haven't got
in black and white.

Carol:
I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean the properties of
Phoenixes as JKR imagined them? I think we can see many of those
properties in canon, including some that aren't relevant here--the
ability to send messages or to rise from their own ashes. Certainly,
the Phoenix-feather core, with its associations with immortality, is
relevant to both Harry and Voldemort (as is the symbolism and or the
powers of the wand wood, holly on the one hand and yew on the other).
And FB is some help (though not as much as I'd like). 

I'm pretty sure that we've had threads on Basilisks in relation to
weasels before (is Ginny "Weasely" relevant here?). Possibly, there's
some similar legend or mythology related to Basilisks and Phoenixes.
I'll leave that to the classicists.

All I know is that DD knew that help would come to Harry, he had a
good idea of what Harry would be facing, and the combination of Fawkes
and the Sword of Gryffindor was better than anything else he could
have sent.

Carol, tempted to look up Basilisks and Phoenixes in a Google search
but deciding against it for the moment