Snape's Messenger Patronus ((was Re: Snape's Dementor lesson

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 182635

> Carol responds:
> 
> Er, no. Snape informs *them* that Dumbledore will be coming to Order
> quarters shortly and tells Sirius to wait:
> 
> DD tells Harry, "Professor Snape requested that Sirius remain 
behind,
> as he needed somebody to remain at headquarters to tell me what had
> happened, for I was due there at any moment" (830).

zgirnius:
Your quote gives no indication that Snape told the Order Albus was 
coming. It just establishes that it was Snape who suggested Sirius 
wait for Albus. It could be he made contact, everyone agreed to go, 
and someone said "But what about Albus, who is coming?" and Snape 
asked Sirius to stay. Or it could be that they all knew Albus was 
coming (since several members were present - perhaps there was a 
preplanned meeting Snape and others knew about). Or it could be Snape 
knew because he had received a separate communication *from* Albus 
about his intentions. If Snape contacted Albus in any way that 
evening, Albus failed to mention it to Harry, and we have no 
indication what form that contact by Snape took.

> Carol:
> It's *possible* that Snape left his office, ran all the way to
> Hogsmeade, 

zgirnius:
It suffices to pass the main gate of the castle, which is a lot 
closer. This was established in HBP, "The Flight of the Prince".

> Carol:
> and Apparated there and back, after which he searched the
> forest, but it would be a lot faster and more efficient, especially
> considering that Harry's going to the MoM was an emergency, to
> communicate by Patronus.

zgirnius:
I disagree. Getting to the gates on foot, at normal walking speed, 
requires very little time. A "few minutes" according to Harry 
in "Snape Victorious" (p. 161, bottom), and perhaps even less, seeing 
as in "Silver and Opals" it takes approximately a page of dialogue, 
without apparent interruption, from entering the grounds (bottom p. 
251) to meeting Filch in the Entrance Hall (p. 252)

How long does it take a Patronus to travel from Northern Scotland to 
London? We do not even know the answer to that question (as a quick 
glance at assorted pre-DH threads on Snape's nefarious plan to delay 
the Order will demonstrate). How interactive is Patronus 
communication, also? We see it come and deliver a fixed message, and 
that is all, leaving the sender dependent on the recipicent to 
respond. In an emergency, *being there* to make sure people are 
reacting as one would wish, might be worth a few minutes, especially 
ones that can be cut short by, say, running. Or flying, an exotic 
possibility that may well have been open to Snape. <g>

> Carol:
> DD, of course, suggests that he has done so,
> informing Harry that the Order members have more reliable means of
> communication than Umbridge's fireplace (and we later see other 
Order
> members using Patronuses to communicate).

zgirnius:
He does not even say Snape *used* the reliable method (which I agree  
a Patronus is). He stated the Order have such a method, not that 
Snape used it. Also, means in that statement can denote a plural - 
more than one such means. I don't see why Albus would need to hide 
this method from Harry in any case, regardless of what Snape did or 
did not use, because he has used a Patronus in front of Harry in the 
past. It must be a habit of his, never to make simple declarative 
statements of fact when talking to Harry, unless he absolutely, 
totally *must*.

> Carol:
> Another possibility, which makes more sense than taking the time to
> run to Hogsmeade to Apparate, is Dumbledore's fireplace. 

zgirnius:
I have already pointed out the flaw in your characterization of 
Apparition as a slow and cumbersome method. Snape does not have to 
run, he can fly, and he does not have to get all the way to 
Hogsmeade, merely out the gates. However, Flooing from Albus's office 
is certainly another option. And he could have used it not merely to 
speak into the fire, but to arrive bodily. 

> Carol:
> If and when
> he communicates with him at other times, especially during the 
school year, it's probably by Dark Mark (or in person if he's 
summoned).

zgirnius:
It is this last that I suggested, yes. Snape could be summoned by 
Voldemort while at the school, this would necessitate an appearance 
in person, and he would have to Apparate.