[HPforGrownups] CHAPDISC: DH25, Shell Cottage

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 184004

Questions:
1) Any suggestions why JKR had these characters (Trio, Bill, Fleur,
Mr Ollivander, Griphook, Luna, Dean) in a small house for weeks,
maybe months?

In my mind, this fact (and the reference to the crowd at Auntie Muriel's)
paints a picture of the faithful driven into hiding.  What's odd is that
other then the Trio, who are planning the Gringotts break-in, no one seems
to be engaged in any active resistance operations.  If Lupin can make a
visit just to announce Teddy's birth, I found it surprising that we see
nothing of an active underground network.

2) There is a relaxed mood in this chapter, with no spells used in
anger. Some (adrenaline junkie) readers may have been tempted to skip
this chapter to get on with the fighting, and filling of body bags.
This chapter filled a few holes in what goes on with families in
other parts of the Wizarding World. What tidbit did you enjoy, hidden
in this chapter?

The name of the cottage and its association with the soothing sounds of the
sea do a great deal toward setting a mood that is sustained throught the
chapter.

However, other than sealing the deal with Griphook and the tiara reminder,
this chapter seemed like a lot of nothing (though if you're into alchemy,
Teddy's birth was also important).  I had the sense that JKR was filling in
the time until it was light enough at night in Scotland for the battle of
Hogwarts.  (This short chapter covered more than a month, while the entire
rest of the book took place in a day.)   Portions of it seem like a
candidate for the G.A.R.B.A.G.E. S.C.O.W. (
http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/hypotheticalley.html#scow). For example, did we
really need a discussion of whether Dumbledore was dead?

I've always been curious about the goblins, and the details in this chapter
did much to satisfy my curiosity, but I don't think what we learned was
essential to prepare us for Griphook bailing out of the Lestranges' vault
with the sword.

3) Fleur seemed to react worse to Griphook than the others. Were
Wizard - Goblin relations worse in France?

Fleur is Fleur.  I think JKR is incorporating some French stereotypes into
Fleur, so that she can be expected to be offended by having to cater to the
whims of an alien being in her home who refuses to adapt to local norms
(particularly reflected in Griphook's initial refusal to eat with the
others).

4) There is a saying, "History was written by the winners". The Daily
Prophet has been doing it in most of the books. So are wizards
the "lesser evil" compared to the "not fluffy bunnies", or just as
bad, or worse?

Certainly WW property laws don't reflect the goblin POV. ;-]

We simply don't have enough information to compare wizards to goblins.  For
one thing, the books don't provide much of a glimpse of the goblins at all.
Harry doesn't like Griphook much, but we have no idea whether his
bloodthirstiness is an innate goblin trait, a goblin response to centuries
of abuse at the hands of wizards (hinted at in the endless goblin
rebellions), or just a peculiarity of Griphook himself.

The destruction of the Fountain of Magical Brethren back in OOP, I think,
served notice that whatever the goblins' contributions to the centuries of
conflict, wizards must be faulted for the restrictions they have imposed on
them.  Unfortunately, there's no hint in DH that this is going to happen,
and one could argue that the portrait of Griphook that emerges from this
chapter is intended to lessen our sympathies for goblins as a race.  I'd
like to think that Hermione would make this a priority at some point, but .
. . .

5) We see many heroes in the Harry Potter books have bad qualities.
Is the possibility of Godric Gryffindor's stealing the sword ("For
the greater good") the thing Harry has to come to terms with about
his house hero?

Given goblin notions of ownership, I am unwilling to speculate whether
Gryffindor stole the sword, and I think his conversation with Bill, wherein
Bill lays out goblin ownership beliefs in a relatively non-judgmental
manner, was intended to lay Harry's concerns to rest.  I, for one, do not
believe goblin notions of ownership are wrong; they are different,
reflecting cultural norms in goblin society -- in which craftsmanship may
have been honored and revered above all else -- before they were subjugated
and marginalized by the dominant wizard culture and shunted aside into
professions for which wizards have no taste or aptitude.

7) Luna deserves her own question. Flowers on Dobby's grave: loyalty
to her father; the only one who Mr Ollivander gave a personal
compliment to as he left; and never complained despite her account of
missing Christmas in a cellar jail. Why do you think she is such an
important presence in Harry Potter's life?

Luna's general importance, I think, relates to her acceptance of being
different.  However, in this chapter she serves only one purpose:  she is
there to mention the tiara, and the rest of her actions and statements
(which are patently ludicrous) are there to obscure the tiara clue.

8) We see Fleur in her own environment here. She quickly changes from
(ze goblin) fury; to (you are safe 'ere) over-protectiveness; to
getting Mr Ollivander to deliver the tiara (when Bill was going there
too); to (glancing at the window) worry about Bill outside; to anger
at Muriel; to baby hugger; to humble wife ("Wait" said Bill) within
one meal time. What do you think of her?

I liked this vignette, partly because Bill is one of my favorite peripheral
characters.  Beneath the ponytail and earring, he seems to be the most
level-headed of all the Weasleys, and wondered why he picked such a
high-maintenance wife.  Mostly we see her arrogance, but she is an outsider
in Britain, among the Weasleys, and everywhere she goes due to her
part-veela ancestry.  No wonder she has such a reserve.  Here we see her
loyalty, her caring, and her sense of obligation, but she never steps out of
character.

9) Did you pick up that subtle reminder of the "Lost Diadem of
Ravenclaw" in your first reading? Were there enough clues to identify
this as the last Horcrux?

No, but I was very impressed that Carol identified it after HBP!
11) Goblin ownership laws: "the true owner of an object is the maker,
not the purchaser". This sounds like our copyright and patent laws. I
can't buy a CD and copy a song onto my I-Pod. Are arguments against
the goblin law grounds for authors to re-think copyright laws?

In a word, no. Copyright laws reflect the value we place on the creative
process.  Goblin notions of ownership acscribe the same value to the process
of creating physical objects.  (Note that copyright does expire at some
point under most, if not all copyright laws, so it's not exactly like goblin
notions of ownership.)

12) Is Harry getting reckless, like his thoughts on Sirius? Any other
thoughts about Harry being a godfather?

Harry isn't reckless at all!  He's taking a calculated gamble to save the
WW.  The statement that preceded it was priceless, though.
Bill's assessment that breaking a deal with a goblin is riskier than
breaking into Gringotts -- highlighting exactly how incredibly dangerous
their plan was, was the perfect lead-in to the next chapter, which begins on
a much more serious note.

Debbie


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