Sirius and Snape parallels again - Sirius' death (LONG)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 185091

Lizzyben:
<SNIP>
Why does he play the game? IMO because he gets a power
kick & it satisfies his enormous ego. He claims the mantle of the
Leader of Light, while being able to control & manipulate everyone
around him. Even the MOM can't do *that*. <SNIP>

Alla:

Heh, I have a feeling that on this one I will be defending
Dumbledore, but again I am asking for clarification. Are you in
essence saying that Voldemort did not do anything that Dumbledore
would not want him to and all those killings and atrocities done by
DE and Voldemort is what Dumbledore wants to happen? I am not quite
sure if this is in jest or not (I know you said full foil tin on, but
I do not know what that word means), but if it is not in jest,
here
I cannot agree.

I despise Dumbledore's manipulations, I believe that he almost
crossed the line for me in book 7 from flawed man trying to do the
right thing, to the character I despise. To me there are some things
which good guys won't do without being called not good guys
anymore.
However, I do not think that Voldemort is a pawn in Dumbledore's
hands or anything, I am sure Dumbledore genuinely wanted to do the
right thing for the **greater good**. It is just as bolshevics in
1917 as I told someone offlist he did not seem to care who will get
hurt in the process. Because you know, millions of people suffered a
whole lot before 1917 and really, revolutions do not appear out of
nowhere, usually very real sufferings happen to trigger them. But
then it is up to the people who appear to lead the change to minimize
the sufferings, to step up and heal the population, etc. I just do
not think Dumbledore was the right one to do so, but I do not doubt
that Voldemort is the evil one, even if Dumbledore to me is near that
line which would make him a monster.
Killing Sirius ( any one of his soldiers, really, not just because I
like Sirius).


Pippin:

He told Harry that he was not permitted to kill with the Elder Wand
and that he took it to save others from it (DH 35). That *was* one of
his goals. Since he was able to keep and use the Elder Wand for a
whole year after Sirius's death, I think we're shown that he hadn't
used it to kill.


lizzyben:

That's what makes it the perfect crime! :) He *didn't* kill Sirius,
Bellatrix did. Everyone thinks so; even Bellatrix thinks so. A Priori
Incantatum examination of the Elder Wand would show only a harmless
immobilization spell, among the many DD cast that night to catch
various Death Eaters. The spell was invisible, wordless, & caused
Sirius' death w/o a trace of evidence, w/o a single (live) witness.
Of course, Sirius could testify to being strangely immobilized before
his death, but he is unfortunately dead & unable to tell anyone. DD's
plans for Good go arwy, but his cover-up plans tend to go quite well.


Alla:

Okay now I am confused. I told Pippin that I really like her point, I
do not believe Dumbledore would have been allowed to kill and keep
Elder wand, however are you saying that it only works literally? So
if Dumbledore used wandless spell he would have still been allowed to
keep it?

Leah:
<SNIP>
And Sirius is more attached
to Harry personally (or the James in Harry) than Snape is. I don't
actually see Sirius taking Harry off to Barbados, but I could see an
extremely difficult, noisy, unpleasant reaction for Dumbledore to
deal with, and I can see why that is not in his interests.

Alla:

Oh yes totally agreed.

JMO,

Alla