James and Sirius as Bullies/ some Snape

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 181227

Montavilla47:
I can definitely agree with you (and, in fact, I do). But what I 
don't
really understand is why you're eager to go with "circumstantial
evidence" when it comes to Snape misbehaving, but demand direct
evidence in the case of James and/or Sirius?

We have plenty of circumstantial evidence about James and Sirius
bullying Snape and other students on occasions other than SWM
and the Prank. Why deny that evidence?
<SNIP>


Alla:

Oh but I don't deny them. Meaning that I do not accept all of them 
as fact,
but I totally see them as valid possibility, just as I would totally
see  you ( generic you) to not deny what I consider circumstantial
evidence as valid possibility but not accept them as fact.

Just as you say below for example that you think it is possible for
Snape to be recruited in school but do not find it likely, I
certainly think those circumstantial evidence against Marauders are
POSSIBLE but not all of them likely.




Alla earlier:
> And frankly I am not surprised that we do not have anything as
> dramatic piece of dirt on Snape in his youth as we have on 
Marauders
> in their dealings with each other. I cannot quite explain why I 
feel
> this way, it has to do with character's ambiguousness. No, I do not
> think that Snape was unresolved at the end, of course he was. I
> promise I will come back to this part later when I am able to
> explain it more clearly.  <SNIP>


Alla:

Right so I am coming back and trying to explain myself a bit. What I 
am explaining here is why I am not surprised that we have dirt on 
Marauders and do not have such a revealing piece of dirt on Snape's 
character IF such dirt existed of course. So I suppose this is my 
premise that it existed and I am not even arguing in this part, just 
explaining why I feel that we can deduce this from circumstantial 
evidence

To me it has to do with the author's always making us to build up 
Snape's character in our imaginations so to speak, as no other 
character. Believe me, during the years I so thought that Snape is 
simpler than many argued and I still think that his main motivations 
as revealed are quite simple – love for Lily, etc, but nevertheless 
I think the ambiguousness is still there and pretty much all the 
time too.

Again, by this I do not mean that his character arc was unresolved, 
of course it was – he was loyal to Dumbledore and loved Lily, BUT 
case in point – did he hate Harry till the end or did he not?

Do we know this part? I thought it was super clear, even if one does 
not read the interviews. I thought when Snape screams to 
Dumbledore " him?", that is a clear indication that Snape hates 
Harry and hated him till he died, but I am aware of the 
interpretation that Snape here evades the question and that shows 
that he does not hate Harry no more. Do I agree with this 
interpretation? Of course not but I certainly accept it as valid 
possibility.

Do we know whether Snape participated in the DE atrocities? No, we 
do not. Again, I am sure that he did, but those who say he did not 
also have a valid interpretation. And canon is closed, and we still 
do not know it.

Does it make sense to you? I feel like Snape is always in the 
shadows, always evasive, that it is always unclear what he did or he 
did not do and that this is true to a degree even when canon is 
closed, while with Marauders their hearts are on their sleeves ( and 
this can be said in good or bad way of course), we know whom  they 
hated or whom they liked.

By this I do not think that they are less complicated characters, I 
mean, I am very happy with what we got about Sirius' in OOP  and its 
complexity, but once we got that plot reversal with them ( that they 
were bullies in Pensieve scene or more than in Pensieve scene), that 
was pretty much it.


That is why if Snape was not always their target, but worthy 
opponent in the war, I am not surprised if we have to deduce it 
through circumstantial evidence.

It is as if almost JKR deliberately left some uncertainty over 
smaller details of Snape's life, you know? For every one of us to 
answer those questions as we wish AND still feel that the answers 
have basis in canon even if they are deliberately opposed. Like I 
who dislike the character will in many instances answer differently 
than those who do, etc.


I still do not feel like I am explaining myself well, but this is 
the best I can do at the moment.

Alla