Remus WAS Re: PoA Ch 10 Post DH look

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 181503

Alla:
> But my thing is that number one Remus could have mentioned [DD 
> instructing everyone to stay away from Harry] somewhere in the  
> books, at least in HBP or DH for me to get off his case, and he did 
> not. So I am left with speculating that maybe it was true or maybe 
> it was not. Number two is that even if Albus Dumbledore said so, I 
> see no reason for Remus to follow that order. <snip>


SSSusan:
I guess, though, that this would presume Remus (or anyone else who 
might have been so instructed) DISAGREES with DD about the need to 
keep Harry isolated from the WW until he gets his Hogwarts letter.  

Imagining myself in the place of Potter family friends or Order 
members at the time, I could envision being convinced of the benefit 
of keeping Harry ignorant of the WW and of keeping him isolated from 
his unknown past, even.  If DD and others truly believed that Voldy 
would come back or his followers might try to continue his work, they 
might believe that leaving Harry alone was the safest thing for him, 
that contacting him could actually lead Voldy/the DEs to him.


> > SSSusan previously:
> > ... I have a feeling DD said "Don't!" once he'd placed Harry
> > with the Dursleys. And Remus, as we all know, isn't exactly one to
> > stand up and defy someone.
 
> Alla:
> See above. I would find it totally in character for Dumbledore to 
> say so and for Remus not to defy him, I just dislike it immensely. 
> And here is another thing, that lovely conversation at the end of 
> OOP between Order members and Dursleys, do you think took place 
> with Dumbledore's consent or without it? Because while at some 
> point I was going back and forth, now I am thinking it took place 
> without Dumbledore's consent IMO since otherwise I see no reason 
> for DD himself not to be there. If I am right, then we have 
> precedent for order members defying Dumbledore where Harry is 
> concerned.

SSSusan:
Yes and no.  By the point of this interaction, though, the issue is 
that Harry is now PART of the WW, right?  He knows the full story 
now, he's aware of the attempt on his life & the murders of his 
parents, he knows he needs to be cautious.  The point of no contact 
to age 11 may have had everything to do with wanting to keep Harry 
safe.  And I could see others buying into that. 


> > Susan, earlier:
> > Interesting to me is that you used the phrase "unwillingness to
> > interfere." That intrigues me. Do you think Remus would've seen
> > contacting Harry as interference, as opposed to defiance? Or do 
> > you think DD issued no instructions to stay away from Harry?
 
> Alla:
> I have no clue if he did or did not issue such instructions. If 
> there were instructions of course Remus would have viewed 
> contacting Harry as defiance IMO.


Okay, for the sake of argument, let's proceed with this idea...

> > SSusan, previously:
> > Or are you saying that Remus could have simply begun 
> > corresponding, saying he knew Harry's parents, but saying nothing 
> > about the particulars of their friendship (wizardhood, Hogwarts, 
> > the nature of their deaths, etc.)?
 
> Alla:
> Anything, really, this scenario I would totally love. Who says that 
> Remus had to be Harry's guide in magical world indeed. Let him just 
> be that friend from the muggle world, who can provide some solace 
> from Dursleys, even if temporarily.

SSSusan:
So let's assume we're talking about just reaching out to the kid, not 
informing him about the WW or his parents' true pasts.  Why DIDN'T 
Remus do that?  

Well, besides what I said, above, that he might believe it was the 
best way to keep Harry safe if there was no contact with those who 
knew the Potters, there's also the issue of what Remus would think he 
would have to OFFER Harry.

Yesterday I said:
> > is, "defeatist" is an attitude I can readily see in canon!Remus. I
> > think his natural quietness, his tendency to take a back seat, his
> > tendency not to speak out -- all of that mixed with 
> > his "affliction" and the danger he knows he poses to others with 
> > it, made him susceptible to a defeatist attitude.
> > 
> > IOW, once James & Lily were dead, Sirius thought to be a traitor 
> > & in Azkaban, Peter presumably dead, and DD having stowed Harry 
> > away with Muggles, I could see all of that adding up to a Remus 
> > feeling very defeated and "I give up'ish."
 
> Alla:
> This is all very in character for Remus and I completely agree with 
> you – very plausible explanation. But again I just do not like it. 
> I mean now when  Evil Remus is dead, this quote that I provided 
> earlier about him wanting to touch Harry and did not can mean only 
> one thing, right? He wants to comfort Harry to show his support and 
> stops himself. Why? I mean I know why, but it is just extremely 
> terribly annoying if you ask me, heheh.


SSSusan:
And I found it annoying that he didn't send letters to Harry during 
the year after Sirius died.  I know he gave the excuse/reason that he 
was working undercover amongst the werewolves -- and he was -- but I 
really, REALLY wanted him to come through for Harry.  I wanted him to 
recognize Harry's need for a strong adult, a parental figure, someone 
who would support him and just show that he cared about him, someone 
who would understand what Sirius' death meant to him.  I was upset 
that Remus didn't find a way sometimes, on the sly, to write quick 
notes to Harry throughout that year.  I mean, he HAD to know how 
devastated Harry was, how alone he felt....

So here, I think, is the crux of it.  Even though I was disappointed 
in Remus for that, just like you were for him NOT taking that one 
more step and *actually* reaching out to touch Harry when he clearly 
wanted to do so, I think JKR really, really did a good job in keeping 
Remus consistent.  That is, I see Remus at his core as *insecure.* 
Insecure, not in the sense of some I know, who're constantly asking 
for confirmation of how they look, what people think of them, yadda 
yadda, but insecure in the sense of doubting whether people want to 
be around him, whether they want him in their lives.  

Some might call this weakness rather than insecurity.  And perhaps it 
is.  But I see it as just self-doubt, as a fear of bringing 
difficulty or even danger into others' lives.  He's spent a lifetime 
of doubting whether he has anything much to offer besides risk and 
danger.  And *that,* I think, is a major part of the reason Remus did 
not reach out to Harry at these various points.  It's just not who he 
was.

And, as annoying as he was re: Tonks in DH, that, too, was consistent 
with an insecure and self-doubting Remus.  Rather than looking at her 
& listening to her as she said she wanted him in her life, all he 
could see was the negative, that "what ifs," his failings and those 
things he could never offer or provide.  A lot of US want to smack 
him and say, "Oh, get over it, man!" but I think it was deeply 
ingrained in his personality after decades of rejection, exclusion, 
near-misses, pain and probably embarrassment.  

To me, both his behavior with Tonks -- his inability/unwillingness 
to "give in" to happiness -- and his hesitation to reach out to Harry 
at these various points when a lot of people would have, stem from 
that very firmly held sense of insecurity and self-doubt.


Alla:
> In fact now I am thinking that maybe his desire to join in with 
> Trio and leaving Tonks maybe also partially caused by guilt that he 
> did not do enough for Harry when he was younger and now, let's 
> forget about his family ( his issues notwithstanding) and just try 
> to rectify it. 

SSSusan:
It's possible.  But still I think it's also fairly readily explained 
by his belief that he's not worthy, that he'll only bring grief to 
those who care about him or are connected to him.  But by DH, turning 
to the Trio probably caused less of a fear of that "what if" than did 
staying with Tonks and contemplating what he could do or cause that 
might hurt them.

Siriusly Snapey Susan