Lupin's behavior (Was: CHAPDISC: DH11, The Bribe)

[Zara]

No: HPFGUIDX 180615

> > zgirnius:
> > Did Harry start kicking furniture around in Aberforth's house? 
 
> a_svirn:
> It wouldn't surprise me if Harry kicked Aberforth should Aberforth 
> call him a coward. 

zgirnius:
An interesting hypothetical. I was, however, referring to the canon 
fact that Lupin kicked furniture. Then Harry, a page and a half 
later, called *him* a coward. The provocation which "justified" 
Lupin's kicking of furniture was that Harry dared to suggest James 
might think Lupin should stay with his child, when *Lupin* tried to 
manipulate Harry by dragging James into the conversation. 

As it happens, Lupin did then resort to physical violence.

> > zgirnius:
> > I beg to differ. Lupin was acting out of fear, and this can be 
said 
> > nicely (or, at any rate, without resorting to insults). 

> a_svirn:
> Yes it can. Because acting out fear, is not the same thing as being 
a 
> coward. Every person in existence has acted out of fear once or 
> twice, at least. Even the great Harry Potter, when he panicked and 
> tried to run from the Grimauld Place, because he thought himself 
> possessed. Lupin's motivation here is very similar. 

zgirnius:
What, then, to you, is a coward? My dictionary calls it someone who 
shows "disgraceful" fear. This seems a rather subjective call to 
make, whether any given exhibition of fear is 'disgraceful' or not. 
(And, leaving a new, and pregnant, bride just like that, without 
discussing it with her, and because it is "for her good", strikes me 
as an action I *would* call 'disgraceful'). I would not distinguish 
between the two, exept to note that 'acting out of fear' is not 
insulting, whereas 'coward' is. I agree that Harry was rude, and also 
believe he nailed the substance of the situation.

> a_svirn:
> He was doing both – acting from his personal fears about the baby 
and 
> for the sake of the WW and defeating Voldemort. And the former was 
> not Harry's business. 

zgirnius:
If he was acting on behalf of the WW, why is it that all his 
explanations of his actions were about Tonks and the baby? Even if 
you are right, surely poor Harry could be forgiven for thinking that 
1) Lupin was acting for the reasons he stated, and 2) it was OK for 
him to express opinions about matters Lupin insisted on bringing up 
in conversation.

> a_svirn:
> Of course he wouldn't. It doesn't follow, however, that he had any 
> right to lecture Lupin at all, let alone to insult him. 

zgirnius:
I'm sorry, but anyone who rants about their relationship to someone, 
cannot complain when that someone decides to offer his or her 
opinion. I agree these are deeply private and personal matters, but 
the way to avoid the intrusion of others into them, is not to air 
them in public.

> a_svirn:
> I don' see it. Lupin said that Tonks would be OK. Which means that 
he 
> had thought it over and concluded that she wasn't in any immediate 
> danger. And what sort of danger she would be while staying with her 
> mother and under the Fidelius protection, anyway?

zgirnius:
Let's see. Maybe she'd get all depressed and not be able to do magic, 
because her new husband had left her without so much as a by your 
leave?

Anyway - was Andromeda under Fidelius? I don't recall reading that, 
and it makes little sense that Ted left if she was. I thought her 
safety consisted of her undeniably pure, Black blood.