House elves and some spoilers for Swordspoint WAS: realistic solutions

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 180783

 
> Pippin:
> Where does canon indicate that it's good? Does anyone finish the
> story and want to be a House Elf? Or think that Harry, Ron or
> Hermione should replace Kreacher with another Elf when
> Kreacher dies?
> 
> Magpie:
> Who said anything about wanting to be a house elf? It's being a house 
> elf owner that's the sweet deal. Should they replace Kreacher when he 
> dies? Sure, why not? Wouldn't you miss the wonderful cooking and 
> somebody doing all your cleaning for you?

Pippin:
Yup, that's why I pay people to do those things <g> 

 If Harry can't find an Elf who wants paying, he can hire a wizard who's 
good at Householdey spells, or maybe a Squib like Filch. It's not like
Harry can't afford it.
 
> Pippin:
> Sure, we might want to own a House Elf if we could fool ourselves
> into thinking we'd always treat them kindly, but how is that
> different than wishing we could sample a dose of amortentia or
> experience the bliss of an Imperius curse?
> 
> Magpie:
> Exactly why I think owning a slave is problematic whether the slave 
> is happy or willing or not. But I doubt JKR would say Harry or 
> Hermione couldn't be trusted with the responsibility.

Pippin:
::splutters:: but isn't that exactly what isolating the issue of the
slaves' happiness from the issue of slavery does? Allow us to
examine whether owning a slave is problematic whether the 
slave is happy or not? 

Harry had to accept  the responsibility and so he makes the
best of it; that's Harry's way. But would anyone say he's never going
to lose his temper with Kreacher, never going to give a command
that Kreacher can't obey, always be quick enough to prevent
Kreacher from punishing himself, never be fooled into letting
Kreacher obey someone who would mistreat him, never tire
of Kreacher's ways nor fail  to support him  if he becomes 
too old or sick to work?

Of course Kreacher loves Harry and would forgive him any lapses
(I hope!) But love doesn't always last. And House Elves don't always
love their masters. Kreacher certainly didn't love Sirius one bit, and
I doubt he would have changed his mind if Sirius had been nicer to
him. Who can say whether Kreacher will always love Harry?

All in all, it's a heavy-duty commitment to undertake for the sake
of domestic services, IMO. I don't envy Harry his sandwich.  

> Magpie:
> How is this supposed to be relevent? I don't see Harry's final 
> thoughts on his house elf reading at all like an ominous note of 
> Harry being on his way to alcoholism by ending the book reaching for 
> a drink. I don't read any hints of danger in the text in Harry owning 
> Kreacher.

Pippin:
It's relevant in that not labeling slave owners as wicked is not the same
thing as seeing nothing wrong with slavery. Even if you do think that
something is wicked, the moral approach may not be the best
one to take. I'll give another example: vegetarianism. You could
be against eating meat on moral grounds, but feel that the best way
to persuade non-vegetarians is to emphasize the health benefits.


The hint of danger in the text is what happened to Sirius.
Sirius didn't see any danger in owning Kreacher. He was not a cruel
man and believed in treating House Elves well generally. He never
perceived himself as a bad master. As far as he was concerned, it
was  Kreacher who was being a bad elf.  

Would rules for better treatment, such as Apocryphal!Hermione 
might institute at the DRCoMC,  prevent another Sirius/Kreacher
debacle? I don't think so.  Sirius never ordered Kreacher to take 
poison, he never ordered him to do extra punishments like the 
Malfoys with Dobby, he certainly didn't use him as a spy or 
involve him in a kidnapping, or ask him to perform anything but a 
House Elf's normal duties. I'm not sure he even committed
verbal harrassment - did he ever utter a threat or use any
language worse than 'toerag'?

And yet if Sirius had not owned a House Elf, he would probably be
alive, and Harry would still have a godfather.  Until House Elves are 
allowed to choose their own masters and can decide on their own to 
leave if they're unhappy, until they're allowed to be unhappy without 
punishing themselves, until, in other words, they are free,
they will be a danger to the whole society.

Pippin