CHAPDISC: DH12, Magic is Might

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 180826

---  Troy Doyle <afn01288 at ...> wrote:
>
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,
> Chapter Twelve, Magic Is Might
> 
> ...
> 
> Discussion Questions
> 
> 1. Were you surprised that the trio were apparating to 
> Grimmauld Place on the top outside step and why?
> 

bboyminn:

Actually, no, it made perfect sense to me. Though I don't
think anything in the previous books established that the
top step was inside the bounds of the Secret Keeper Charm,
it still made sense to me.


> 2. Harry says if Umbridge opened the locket it would make no
> difference, since she was so evil to start with; however she
> did wear it awhile.  Could its influence possibly have made 
> her even more malevolent than in the past?
> 


bboyminn:

I never really thought about it before, but since Umbridge was
wearing a Horcrux it was bound to affect her. Though I 
absolutely don't think it effected her enough to excuse her
actions. She knew what she was doing, and I hope she paid a
price for it.

So, to directy answer your question, yes I think it did make
her more malevolent, but not to the extent where she can use
it as an excuse.


> 3. Did you even think before we see the tidy kitchen that 
> Kreacher's transformation and efforts to please would or 
> could be so dramatic?
> 

bboyminn:

I knew and predicted that Kreacher would either come around or
would die a very early and unpleasant death. I think the
actual transition could have had a few more details to explain,
that Regulus was against Voldemort, and so Kreacher should also
now be against Voldemort. I think it was explained well enough
for the readers to understand, but I didn't feel it was 
presented to Kreacher in enough detail for him to understand.
Although, he may be smarter than I am giving him credit for.


> 4. We find out Snape is the new Headmaster at Hogwarts.  Who
> else did you think might take this place?  Perhaps as Deputy 
> Headmistress in the past it could have been McGonagall?
> 

bboyminn:

Well, I thought Snape would be headmaster eventually. I 
envisioned McGonagall taking over as head and then there being
an attack in which the DE's took over Hogwarts and put Snape 
in charge. 

So, even though it didn't play out exactly as I had planned,
I was not at all surprised that Snape was made headmaster.


> 5. Since Hermione got Phineas's picture off the wall, has 
> she learned how to defeat the charms that keep other pictures
> from being removed or was Phineas's portrait not stuck to 
> begin with?
> 

bboyminn:

I think the only reasonable conclusion is the Phineas's portrait
was mounted by normal means, so it would come right off the wall.

Though consider this, Phineas could not only  move from Hogwarts
to the Black House, he could move from portrait to portrait at 
either place. So, why didn't he just leave his own portrait in
Hermione's bag, and go to one of the other portraits in the 
Black house? 

Perhaps, when the portrait was removed from the wall, it, in a
sense, became disconnected from the other portraits in the house.


> 6. What did you think about upon learning of the plot to 
> infiltrate the Ministry in search of Umbridge and the horcrux?
> They discuss timing, strategy, and logistics and express their
> own misgivings. Could or should they have tried to get the 
> horcrux in a less dangerous and complicated manner?
> 

bboyminn:

The only other means would have been to attack Umbridge in her
own home. And to do that, they would have had to know where
she lived. Now in the real world, all you have to do is follow
someone to find out where they live. But with Floo and Apparation
that becomes infinitely more complex. 

They did however know that Umbridge would always be in the
Ministry during the day, and with Poly-disguises they wouldn't
stand out much. Still I don't think they counted on the fact
that the people they were impersonating had regular jobs to do.

They envisioned themselves wandering around in quite recognizable
form, coming and going as they please without anyone giving it
a thought. But they obviously didn't count on being asked to do
their jobs.

> 7. There was concern over the painful scar Voldemort visions,
> about Voldemort invading Harry's mind.  Why didn't Voldemort
> ever try to invade Harry's mind?  Did the fact that Harry had
> a scar and that Voldemort presumably did not have anything to
. do with this?
> 

bboyminn:

I don't think Voldemort could invade Harry's mind to the extent
that Harry could invade Voldemort's. It was a two-way connection
but much stronger in the Harry to Voldemort direction.

In Harry's first experience with Voldemort implanting thoughts
in his mind, Harry ignored the very unreasonable and irrational
aspect of his vision, all of which were pointed out to him by
Hermione. But it was the first time, and it so closely mimicked
his vision of Arthur being attacked that he couldn't possibly
ignore it.

Now, after the fact, any illogical visions that Voldemort 
might plant in Harry's mind would be questioned very deeply
and thoroughly before being acted upon. I personally think
that Voldemort knew he could not effectively play that card
twice. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on
me'. 

I think Voldemort could have implanted thoughts and visions in
Harry's mind, but he couldn't actually force Harry to act on
them. Voldemort, if he were smart, could have perhaps planted
false information. For example, he could have planted the 
vision of himself being in London, while actually being in 
Eastern Europe. Again, that would have been somewhat weak
because it seems that many knew Voldemort was abroad. 

So, really, I can't think of any vision Voldemort could have
planted that would have mattered to Harry. I'm sure he could
have planted dark brutal visions in Harry just to torment him,
but Voldemort seems to have places to go and things to do, he
can't sit around all day in a dark room planting vision in 
Harry's mind.



> 8. Did you find anything particularly interesting about how 
> the trio actually physically got into the Ministry building?
> 

bboyminn:

Well, I thought is was fun and funny having to enter by stepping
into a toilet, but other than that, I didn't have a problem.

Keep in mind that they way the entered was not the normal way.
Previously, if I remember right, everyone apparated or Floo
into the Atrium of the Ministry. It was only after the DE's
took over that everyone had the enter and exit by this most
inconveniently means.


> 9. They will have to leave Grimmauld Place after the incident.
> How did you feel about the location while they are there?  
> For instance, is it a safe refuge, Harry's real home, and 
> positively nostalgic of former times there, or merely an 
> expedient and sometimes unpleasant one at that?
> 

bboyminn:

I absolutely predicted that Harry would go back to the Black
House and make it his temporary headquarters. 

I don't think Harry was feeling all that nostalgic though. I'm
sure there is an element of that, but I'm sure the house was
more a load of painful memories about Sirius. It was a 
moderately safe refuge, and really the only refuge they had,
but I don't think Harry views it as a home yet. Perhaps after
the war, he may have relocated there and it would have them
gradually grown to feel like a home. Even more so after
Ginny joined him, and once the kids came along, he would have
certainly seen it as a home. 

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn