House elves WAS: realistic solutions

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 180983

> > a_svirn:
> > And what if it is? Goblins with their contempt for private
> > property are nothing like real life bankers either. Still we
> > recognise them as bankers.
> 
> Mike:
> I'm curious, do you find goblins' notion of ownership inappropriate 
> for bankers? Or do you think it is their culture and, therefore, 
> wizards should respect that culture, accede to their position?

a_svirn:
Well, of course I do find their notions inappropriate for bankers. I 
wouldn't entrust my money to someone who does not have a healthy 
respect for my property and questions my very right to possess it. I 
don't understand why wizards do so, but it's their look-out. 

> Mike:
> Now we may be getting down to the nut of it. I've said that I think 
> the elves being slaves is their natural state of being. 

a_svirn:
It can't be their *natural* anything because slavery is a *social* 
institution, not natural element. They may be naturally predisposed 
to serve wizards, yes, but that does not what make them slaves. 
Wizarding customs and laws enforced by magic is what makes them 
slaves. 

> Mike:
That's the 
> way I read the books. Now you seem to be saying that it's *canon* 
> that they are enslaved by wizard *law*. Are you saying there is 
> canon that says that house elves are slaves by virtue of legal 
> constraints? Could you give me the canon that you're referencing?

a_svirn?
?!! The fact that Sirius can bequeath Kreacher? Obviously by 
wizarding law it is a legal procedure. Obviously it is legal to own 
house-elves.  

> > a_svirn:
> > You keep saying that elves are slaves because they want to
> > serve, as if it were some sort of an axiom, but in fact, they
> > are slaves because they are OWNED.
> 
> Mike:
> No I don't. I say they are slaves by virtue of their organic make-
up, 
> that it is their nature to be slaves. They may have come to "want" 
to 
> serve, but from time immemorial they have been *compelled* to serve 
> by their very nature. If you can show me how my reading elves being 
> slaves as their natural state is wrong, as I've invited above, 
please 
> do.
> 
a_svirn:
Well, we know that they are compelled by magic, not by their organic 
make-up. You are not going to say that they have a chromosome 
responsible for wearing pillow-cases? That's a bit absurd. Pillow-
cases, towels and socks are part of human culture, not elvish nature. 
And as Dobby said it is a symbol of their enslavement. 

a_svirn