Whom did Dumbledore torture and killed?/ Tonks as auror

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 181071

> Alla:
<SNIP>
>> So I take it you know for a fact that Dumbledore killed people. I 
> really want to know whom Dumbledore killed for a **fact**. 
> 
> 
> Angel:
> Take your pick.
> 
> Murders
> Ariana, Sirius, Gryndel, Severus, (the owl), Moody...etc...
> 
> Physical injuries
> the trio - PS, etc, etc, Katie in HBP, Ron in HBP, Rosmerta in 
HBP, etc...
> 
> As I said earlier he may not have pointed his wand at these people 
and shot green flames but by his manipulations he was as much 
responsible for their demise as the actual doer of the killings. 
<SNIP>


Alla:

Thanks. That's one broad definition of murder though in my opinion. 
I am pretty sure that if you ask Dumbledore himself he would agree 
that he is partially responsible for the deaths of people you 
mentioned.

By the way, by this definition I take it you believe that Snape is 
also responsible for the deaths of Potters? 

But I can only assign him some percentage of liability here and not 
very high.

I am especially wondering how you make Dumbledore responsible for 
the death of Grindelwald ( or is Gryndel somebody else I do not 
remember?) I am sorry, I am really not sure here.

Moody and Sirius, sure, I would give Dumbledore some part of blame, 
but I still doubt that he wanted them to die.


May I take that you do not have examples of people whom Dumbledore 
killed directly?


Renee:
Maybe she did take him out, but not for long, apparently. Toward the
end of the fight, Lucius Malfoy is up and about again, making an
unsuccesful atttempt to take the prophecy from Harry (this happens
after Bellatrix has defeated Tonks). So either Tonks's stunner missed
Malfoy, or it was a rather weak one. Either way, it doesn't support
the idea that she was a particularly good Auror.

I don't doubt Rowling intended her to be competent. The problem, for
me - a recurrent problem in the series - is that she told us but did
very little to show it to us.

Alla:

Yes, you are right. He does get up on page 804 and puts the wand 
between Harry's ribs. Ooops Alla. Sorry.

On the other hand, stunner does suppose to not last forever and he 
falls down soon enough where Sirius and Bella are duelling, so maybe 
he was weakened by it.

As I said before, I did not see any aurors showing the impressive 
fits like Minerva did in battle of Hogwarts for example, I just do 
not see Tonks as being shown any less competent as any of them, 
especially by virtue of her being a woman.

JMO,

Alla