PS/SS chapters 16/17 - post DH look

[Bex]

No: HPFGUIDX 181102

Alla:
> "In years to come Harry would never quite remember how he had 
> managed to get through his exams when he half  expected Voldemort to 
> come bursting through the door at any moment" - p.262
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Well, this quote is not exactly new, but I am typing it up again to 
> feel pleased one more time that it turns out to foreshadow exactly 
> what Geoff used to bring it up for - Harry lives YAY.
> 
Bex:
So many of us readers forgot about that sentence. And those of us that
remembered it (I read that and flipped about three weeks before DH
Release) immediately relegated it to a FLINT and kept going. The way
the line read, I just thought she put it in, not fully intending to
give it away *just* *like* *that*.

<SNIPPAGE>
Alla:
> "We've got to go to Dumbledore," said Harry. "Hagrid told that 
> stranger how to get past Fluffy, and it was either Snape or 
> Voldemort under that cloak - it must've been easy, once he'd got 
> Hagrid drunk. I just hope Dumbledore believes us" - p.266
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> This bit just annoyed me all over again. Harry is NOT rushing into 
> the battle yet. He wants to go to Dumbledore, to responsible adult 
> now when he collected all the proof, or he thinks so LOL.
> 
> It just seemed to me that Dumbledore beat out of him whatever 
> remaining trust in adults he had, metaphorically speaking.
> 

Bex:
Two ways to take this. If DD was expecting Harry to go through the
trapdoor, then yes - that's exactly what happened. DD was gone, and
McGonagall didn't take him seriously, and Harry learned that if you
want a job done right, do it yourself, so to speak. BUT, if you are of
the opinion that DD was trying to trap Quirrelmort and he *didn't*
want Harry running off to the third floor corridor, then it's Harry
not having any faith in the capable adults - he doesn't trust that the
professors have everything under control, and they are just keeping
him in the dark, so he runs off and does something rash, with dire
consequences.

<HUGE CANON SNIP>
> Alla:
> I am not having a slightest doubt that Dumbledore set it all up as a 
> test for Harry and his friends. I am not asking you to accept it of 
> course, but if you are accepting this premise, how far do you think 
> he meant it to go?
> 
> You think his absense was genuine and he indeed was worried that he 
> was too late and that he had to be in Hogwarts at that time?

Bex:
You have your opinions and I have mine, and that being said, we should
get on just fine.

I think that DD knew Voldemort had infiltrated Hogwarts. By the end of
the year, he probably knew it was Quirrell. The main reasons I think
this are:

1: DD would have questioned witnesses at the first Quidditch match.
Someone would have noticed Quirrell either chanting under his breath,
or not even stuttering when Harry was nearly killed.

2. I don't think that the stone was moved out of Gringotts just in the
nick of time by coincidence. Why would DD wait until the middle of the
summer? Why let a student even SEE something top-secret like that?
(Yes, Hagrid knows he can't tell, but right in front of an eleven year
old?) DD gives the job to Hagrid (a half giant who can resists most
types of magic and can squash a normal sized person flat). And note
that the Goblins are BRAGGING about how the vault was emptied that day
- they are FLAUNTING the fact the Voldy missed out. Seems like Goblins
would not be interested in mentioning that a high-security vault was
broken into. That may just be me trying to Humanize them, of course.

3. All of the parts of the gauntlet from the Third floor corridor can
be handled by a group of eleven year olds. Granted, Ron is a great
chess player, but he's no Bobby Fischer. And Hermione is a very clever
girl, but I'm no genius and I was figuring out logic puzzles like
Snape's when I was her age. Charmed keys? There are multiple ways to
get that key - Accio comes to mind, and there are probably other ways.
There are other less humane ways to deal with Fluffy besides music -
seventeen year-old wizards are pitted against fully grown dragons
three books later, with similar results. And a troll is not
particularly difficult to deal with, with some skills and level-headed
thinking - a simple camouflage charm plus knocking it out with its own
club would probably work well. Devils Snare? That is an effective trap
because you have the element of surprise - if someone were to look
before they leap, they'd see the floor wasn't quite right and they'd
be careful where they land. 
So the gauntlet was just to slow the intruder down - not stop him. The
mirror was expected to keep the stone safe and keep the intruder busy.
DD slipped away, on a broom as opposed to the Floo or Apparition, to
give Quirrell plenty of time to make his move.
DD never intended for Harry to head down there. That's why DD "hurtled
to the third floor" after meeting Ron and Hermione - if he had
intended for Harry to tackle this quest, I doubt that he would have
used such a slow method of transportation to handle that "important
business" he was called to. 

(I would love to call JK on this - not that her interviews are
incredibly reliable, but I would love to know which way she wanted
this to go. My 2 cents, anyway.)


Alla:
> Oh and if we are talking about Dumbledore killing people, I would 
> probably say that he came the closest in mind to killing Flannels, 
> still not very directly, but this "having a little chat" does sound 
> quite chilling to me.
> 

Bex: 
Flannels? He killed some lumberjacks' shirts?

Sorry - couldn't resist. :)

I'm not so sure that it was so sinister. It's possible, of course,
that DD was trying to convince Nick and Perenelle (how would ou make
that into a nickname? Perny? Penny, maybe?) for years that they should
move on to "the next great adventure" and he finally succeeded, by
showing Nick what a dangerous weapon the Stone could be. I'm sure it
was a bit morbid, but sinister might be stretching it a bit. I almost
wonder if DD may have convinced the Flamels to keep the stone around a
bit longer as Voldybait. DD didn't think Voldemort had died in GH in
'81, and what could possibly be more tempting than a form of eternal
life to the man who fears death above all things? Riddle would
certainly have known about the Flamels in his quest to immortality.


> Alla: 
> That's all folks :) See you from inside CoS. Can you guess which 
> topic I most likely will not touch? ;)

Bex:
Oh, gee - does it bow, squeak, abuse itself, and fling Malfoys down
staircases? ;)