[HPforGrownups] Re: PS/SS chapters 16/17 - post DH look

[Cassandra Wladyslava]

No: HPFGUIDX 181134

Bex:
I think that DD knew Voldemort had infiltrated Hogwarts. By the end
of
the year, he probably knew it was Quirrell. The main reasons I think
this are:
<SNIP of the first two reasons go UPTHREAD to read them>

Alla:

Um, I think he knew as well and I think the most obvious hint is
when we hear him telling Snape to keep an eye on Quirrell in
Prince's memory.

Cassie:

I don't think this necessarily proves that he knew LV was posessing
Quirrell.  I took it to mean he was suspicious of Quirrell stealing the
stone for HIMSELF.

EDIT: (After reading some more of Chapter 17) I'm wondering about this part:
"It's almost like he thought I had the right to face *Voldemort  *if I
could..." (Harry, SS pag 302)

Not Quirrel. Voldemort. How could Dumbledore have thought Harry had any
chance of facing Voldemort unless he knew/suspected it was Voldemort who was
trying to steal the stone?

Either way, it still begs the question: Why didn't Dumbledore DO something
about it?  Like confront/deal with Quirrell/LV? Certainly if he knew LV had
infilrated Hogwarts he'd want to keep him far away from Harry and the other
children - never mind the stone.

Alla:

Right so here are my questions. Why would he give Harry invisibility
cloak with the note just in case if he did not intend for them to go
there? Why, why would he tell Harry how to work the Mirror of Erised
if he wanted for Harry to have nothing to do with it?

Cassie:

"D'you think he meant you to do it?" said Ron. "Sending you your father's
cloak and everything?"

"Well," Hermione exploded, "if he did - I mean to say - that's terrible -
you could have been killed."

"No, it isn't," said Harry thoughtfully,"He's a funny man, Dumbledore. I
think he sort of wanted to give me a chance. I think he knows more or less
everything that goes on here, you know. I reckon he had a pretty good idea
we were going to try, and instead of stopping us, he ust taught us enough to
help. I don't think it was an accident he let me find out how the mirror
worked. It's almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I
could..."

"Yeah, Dumbledore's off his rocker, all right," said Ron proudly.

(SS pg 302)

Of course, that doesn't ENTIRELY reveal Dumbledore's intentions. But from
that little peice of canon, it seems that at least Harry thought Dumbledore
meant him to find out all this stuff.  Maybe he (Dumbledore) didn't actually
expect Harry to try and fight Quirrellmort...just figure out about the
stone, etc...I don't know.

Alla:

Um, he basically convinced two human beings that they NEED to die.
IMO it is very sinister, not to mention manipulative, but that's
nothing new to me.

I mean, can you show me ONE healthy human being that wants to die? I
am not talking about not being afraid to die. Many people are not
afraid of death, but I am yet to meet one healthy person who
expressed a desire to die. IMO Flamel's age shows that he had no
desire to die whatsoever, not yet IMO. And I am not even talking
about immortality, his wife is with him, so it is not like he does
not have anybody to share long life with. He invented the stone ,
right? And here comes Dumbledore and says – OOPS, you lived enough,
stone must be destroyed. I don't know, sounds sinister to me.

Cassie:

>From SS page 297: "They have enough Elixer to set their affairs in order and
then, yes, they will die"...."To one as young as you, I'm sure it seems
incredible, but to Nicholas and Perenelle, it really is like going to bed
after a very *very* long day." - Albus Dumbledore

It is true that most healthy people do not WANT to die, but not many people
live to be 658/665. In this case, I can sort of see someone being willing to
die and not being suicidal or depressed or in pain or having any other
health/mental problem that would make them want to die.

We also don't know WHO decided the stone should be destroyed.  I see two
scenarios:

1. Dumbledore being manipulative. With what his true nature is I wouldn't
put it past him. "Nick, it's the only way to keep Voldemort from ever
returning." "Think of the greater good, Nicholas."
2. Nicholas decided that, after all those measures had been taken and LV
still managed to almost procure the stone, the only way to protect the stone
was to destroy it.  Dumbledore may've said "Are you sure? If you do
this...you know you and your wife will die." Then Nick may've said "I
know...but if it's the only way to give Voldemort from returning...Pern and
I will make enough Elixer to set our affairs in order...we've discussed it
and decided that's what we would do if your protection failed...then I'll
destroy the stone."  "Are you sure?" "Yes. Besides...It's really like going
to bed after a very very long day..."

Or something like that.  So it could've been manipulation or sacrifice.

~Cassie - Who is looking forward to the CoS post DH threads ^^~


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