student!Snape keeping Lupin's secret (was Re: Sirius as a dog)

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 181171

> Montavilla47: 
> Retaliation could come later. But, if they were present at the time, 
> and they should have been (unless all ill in the hospital), 
> retaliation
> is due immediately.
> 
> Otherwise your gang is lame.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I just do not see how they "should have been present at the time" is 
> necessarily true. Maybe they did not want to talk to Snape that 
> particular day, maybe pensive did not concentrate on what was 
> happening to them – whether they were ill in the hospital or not, 
> you know?

Montavilla47:

Because the scene is presented as being in front of a large crowd 
of students, who have all come out of an O.W.L. exam.  So, it's really
weird that if Snape were a gang, and his gang members were 
also at that O.W.L. (which they should have been if they were in 
his year), that he wouldn't hang out with them--especially since
he'd be the go-to guy for D.A.D.A. questions, what with all the 
interest in it.

I like the explanation that they were all older or younger than he
was.  That would explain why they weren't there with all the other
fifth-year students.  I would hope they were older, because the 
idea of "ickle firsties" Avery and Mulciber attempting to hex 
Lily's friend Mary is more amusing than alarming.

Then again, Mary could be a first year, too, couldn't she?  We
don't know anything about her except that Mulciber attempted 
to something "evil" to her.  

I wonder how often Lily ran up to stop fights between students.
Was she like Hermione with SPEW?  Maybe Lily was known for 
her righteous indignation--which might explain why neither
Severus nor James takes her very seriously.

Then again, maybe it's just as conventional wisdom has it. 
James doesn't take her seriously because he's cool and Severus
doesn't take her seriously because he's evil.

> Montavilla47: 
> (raises hand) I do! I don't have much to back it up with, but
> I think that Malfoy probably did take Severus under his wing.
> 
> Malfoy had the right qualities for high-status in Slytherin.
> He was pureblood, he was rich, he was well-connected. With
> his patronage, Severus would have probably have been
> seen by the Marauders as running with a "gang" of older
> students.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> So, if you believe that Malfoy took Snape under his wing, which I 
> definitely believe as well, you think that he showed his patronage 
> selectively or something?

Montavilla47:
No, but I believe that Lucius graduated at the end of Severus's 
third year, rather than being held back ala Marcus Flint.  Once 
Malfoy left school, he would lose any influence he had among 
the students still attending.  He could and probably did help
Severus once Severus was out of school, but inside?  He wasn't
a governor back then, most likely. Even as governor, he 
doesn't have any say about what goes on in the school beyond
temporarily sacking Dumbledore.  And we saw how well that
powerplay worked.

Alla:
> You do not think that Malfoy would have done whatever it takes to 
> show to those Marauders don't you dare messing with my Severus? 

Montavilla47:
I think he would might have, if Severus asked for help.  I'm not sure 
that Severus would.  I'm also not sure that Lucius wouldn't think that
a bit of bullying would toughen Severus up.  


Alla:
> I mean, I am sure Marauders did not back up, but do you doubt that 
> Malfoy indeed would have taken a stand whether we see it in Pensieve 
> scene or not?

Montavilla47:
I'm positive that Lucius wouldn't, since he was long gone from 
Hogwarts.
 
> MOntavilla47:
> It's an odd thing, but when Sirius talks about Snape
> running with a Slytherin gang, he talks about it with a
> kind of distance. As though he didn't have much to do
> with Snape at that point.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I do not read any distance in that phrase. But could you clarify 
> please – who did not have anything to do with Snape at that point – 
> Sirius or Malfoy?

I meant Sirius.  They way Sirius talks about Snape and the Gang, it's
as though they are people he occasionally notices sitting together in
the Great Hall or across the courtyard.  Not people that he's engaged
with in schoolyard hostilities.

I mean, imagine if it were Harry saying, "Oh, yes.  Pansy Parkinson.
A Death Eater?  Well, she used to hang out with a gang of Slytherins
who nearly all became Death Eaters.  Malfoy.  Crabbe, and.... Goyle,
I think."

Of course, it's odd to being with, because one those gang members
is his own cousin, and he refers to her only as "Mrs. Lestrange."

 
> Montavilla47:
> Had it been gang against gang, I think he would have
> mentioned that. But it's not really evidence, is it, what
> Sirius the dog animagi *didn't* say in the cave?
> 
> Alla:
> I do not remember Sirius mentioning anything of the Pensieve scene 
> in the cave either, so no I do not find it odd that he would not 
> have mentioned it had it been gang against the gang. But for the 
> record, I do not think it was gang against gang all the time. What I 
> am disagreeing with is that Snape was consistently bullied by 
> Marauders without any sort of retaliation from his side.

Montavilla47:
Well, then we really don't have a disagreement.  Because I don't
believe that Snape was consistently bullied by the Marauders
without any sort of retaliation from his side, either.  I think Snape 
made certain to retaliate as much as he could.

If you were to assert, though, that the Pensieve scene was the 
*only* time that the Marauders ever targeted Snape, then we 
would have a disagreement, since Lupin admits that James
continued to hex Snape through seventh year, and his language
implies that there were other incidents--incidents that he 
couldn't or didn't attempt to stop, but which he did make
James and Sirius feel ashamed about.