Marauders and Snape WAS :student!Snape keeping Lupin's secret

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 181172

> > Alla:
> > 
> > I am sorry what "all the canon" on this issue?  Obviously there 
is 
> > pensieve scene and you brought up the detention about James and 
> > Sirius hexing that other student and....? What else? I am sorry 
if 
> > missed another canon that was cited :(

Lea:
> In message 181145, I quoted what Lupin had to say about attacks on 
> Snape, when he was discussing SWM with Harry.  

Alla:

I went back and reread the message. I do not see how it shows that 
Snape was constantly attacked by them together. Did I ever suggested 
you to lay off Snape to me says that they sure attacked Snape, which 
I am not saying they did not. I am just saying that Snape and his 
friends responded in kind.

Just as Pippin says I take Snape's never at the end of HBP with the 
big grain of salt. I am sure they did, sometimes and sometimes it 
ended badly for Snape too, I am not arguing with it.

And, um Snape's creation of Sectusemptra "for enemies" to me says 
that Snape had plenty of enemies. I think we have different ideas 
how Snape made those enemies, that's all.


Lea:
> Actually, there is another argument for regular bullying of Snape 
by 
> the Marauders as a gang and  for no comeback from Slytherins on 
> Snape's behalf which can be drawn from that discussion.  
> <SNIP>
> The fact that they don't give Harry those sort of explanations 
> suggest that they're not true, and to their credit, Sirius and 
Lupin 
> are being honest with Harry.  Harry actually says '"he just 
attacked 
> Snape for no good reason..."' and neither Sirius nor Lupin gives a 
> reason like I've suggested above. <SNIP> 
> None of that reads like there was a gang war going on.       

Alla:

At the time of this conversation I did not get a feel that we were 
supposed to learn of Snape's activities yet though. As in creation 
of Sectusemptra, etc. I mean, they are pretty much said - we were 
gits, but then there was a lot of hexing going on too. I just do not 
see how the gang war filled in that conversation.

After all, Snape was turned upside down by his own creation, by his 
own curse turned back on him which as turns out in HBP whole school 
( or half a school at least) knew. It told me that something more  
than just Marauders' bullying Snape all the time was happening.

 
> Leah: Nothing was actually done to Mary Macdonald.  Lily says that 
> Mulciber 'tried' to do something to her.  Since we don't actually 
> know what it was, we only have Lily's word that it was 'evil'.  I 
> would like to know what was attempted before I agree.

Alla:

Well yeah since Lily in the series seems to be the embodiment of all 
that's good and light ( IMO of course) I definitely take her word 
that it was evil.


  
> Leah: As Montavilla and I have already said, Malfoy was only at 
> school with Snape for a short period because of the age gap 
between 
> them and was not at Hogwarts during the time of SWM.  Possibly 
> Lucius did protect Snape for Snape's first year or couple of 
years, 
> we don't know. 

Alla:

Well,yes, but other Slytherins whom Malfoy was friendly with were 
still there, I think. If Malfoy established his patronage before he 
left, it seems to me that others would continue it. Speculating of 
course.

Lea:
>There's clearly some connection between the Malfoys 
> and Snape and I would have really liked more backstory on that, 
but 
> Sirius' 'lapdog' comment could refer to schooldays or to later 
> patronage of Snape by Malfoy post-Hogwarts, we don't know. 

Alla:

Yes, backstory would be nice. I doubt though that Sirius knew much 
about Snape post Hogwarts, so I am not sure how it can relate to 
post Hogwarts days. JMO.

Lea:
 We also 
> don't know whether if Malfoy did protect Snape at Hogwarts, Lucius 
> did it for the honor of Slytherin, because he liked Snape or 
> because he was getting something in return from Snape.  He's 
> unlikely to have been doing it from the goodness of his heart.    
>

Alla:

Honestly, I do not see how it makes any difference as to why Malfoy 
protected Snape. To me all it matters that he did ( I mean I believe 
he did, I am not asking you to :). 

Montavilla47:
<SNIP>
I like the explanation that they were all older or younger than he
was. <SNIP>


Alla:

Sure, me too.

Alla:
>
> So, if you believe that Malfoy took Snape under his wing, which I
> definitely believe as well, you think that he showed his patronage
> selectively or something?

Montavilla47:
No, but I believe that Lucius graduated at the end of Severus's
third year, rather than being held back ala Marcus Flint. Once
Malfoy left school, he would lose any influence he had among
the students still attending <SNIP>


Alla:

I do not know why I keep implying that Malfoy would have helped 
after pensieve scene, I know that he graduated, LOL. But as to his 
influence disappearing, I am not so sure. Just look at Tommy dear, 
who formed his merry gang and not all of them were in the same year, 
no?

And if Lucius and his friends were little DE helpers together ( 
speculation) while they were in school and Lucius out of school, not 
sure that his influence would disappear at all.

But again to be sure, I think that other members would have helped 
on their own too with our without Lucius.

Montavilla47:
<SNIP>
I meant Sirius. They way Sirius talks about Snape and the Gang, it's
as though they are people he occasionally notices sitting together in
the Great Hall or across the courtyard. Not people that he's engaged
with in schoolyard hostilities.

Alla:

Thanks for clarifying, but maybe it is just the way of speaking, 
same as he referred to Bella as you mentioned.

Montavilla47:
Well, then we really don't have a disagreement. Because I don't
believe that Snape was consistently bullied by the Marauders
without any sort of retaliation from his side, either. I think Snape
made certain to retaliate as much as he could.

If you were to assert, though, that the Pensieve scene was the
*only* time that the Marauders ever targeted Snape, then we
would have a disagreement, since Lupin admits that James
continued to hex Snape through seventh year, and his language
implies that there were other incidents--incidents that he
couldn't or didn't attempt to stop, but which he did make
James and Sirius feel ashamed about.

Alla:

 I cannot exclude other accidents for sure. But the mutual hexing in 
the seventh year to me is very different from Pensieve scene. So, I 
do not see other accidents  like this in canon, but I definitely 
cannot exclude them. As you said Lupin's language implies them ( or 
to me may imply them, since  to me did I ever tell you can relay to 
mutual hexing as well).