Characters inconsistencies (mostly Snape's) WAS :Re:What did you like

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 183822

Alla wrote:
> 
> Well, I don't know actually. I actually agree with one sentence that 
> Carol wrote in this thread - it is all depends on how you look at it 
> IMO.

Carol responds:
Well, at least we agree there!
> 
> I mean, for example you say that Snape's basic character remains
very strong throughout the books. Well, but what IS Snape's basic 
character, you know?
> 
> If you mean that his attitudes towards Harry and other kids remain
the same throughout the book and that **is** his basic character, 
then sure I would agree with you. If you mean that Snape loving Lily
is his  basic character, sure I agree with it too.
> 
> But I just do not see how one can say that Snape's change of heart
as to his being DE not makes him inconsistent character. I truly think 
> it does. OR one can say that it makes him dynamic character, changing 
> etc, but to me it is not mutually exclusive.

Carol:
I agree that off-page Snape or the Snape of "The Prince's Tale" is a
dynamic character, but I disagree that he's inconsistent, which is not
the same thing. (See below.) I also agree that his basic character is
subject to debate if we're talking about his motivations and actions,
but the way he's depicted--his personality, his appearance and
gestures, his manner of speaking, his openly expressed attitudes--is
consistent within the narrative framework (meaning that we're limited
most of the time to Harry's pov and only see a different side of him
in "Spinner's End"--even "The Dark Lord Ascendant," which is written
from an objective pov, gives an inscrutable Snepe who seems to be what
Voldemort thinks he is but is really Snape the actor and superb
Occlumens, consistent with what he has said or implied of himself in
OoP and HBP.) 

Alla: 
> Snape changed something that as far as I am concerned was his basic
values, so yeah I think it is inconsistent, inconsistent in a good 
way, as in changing way. I mean, I suppose that those readers who
think that Snape was since his early childhood was nice decent
honorable guy who just took a wrong turn in his life would probably
argue against it, but IMO young Snape really and truly believed in
what Voldies stood for and embraced his values.

Carol:
We're back to the point we agree on, which is that the interpretation
of character depends on how you look at it. And, FWIW, I don't see
little Severus as so much "a nice decent honorable guy" but rather as
a deprived child who was probably abused by his father, took love or
friendship where he could find it, had an unrealistic view of
Slytherin to begin with (the House of "brains") but did, possibly for
the sake of acceptance among his fellow Slytherins, eventually adopt
the views of his Slytherin friends, mixed with the conviction that he
was at least as talented and worthy of recognition as they were. And,
certainly, he took a "wrong turn" which he deeply regretted when it
led to danger and then death for the girl he loved.

But, that aside, there's nothing inconsistent about that depiction. He
became a DE through a natural progression based on character and
circumstances. His repentance of the revelation of the Prophecy and
its consequences for Lily is equally in character, and the decision to
become Dumbledore's man, risking everything in a vain attempt to save
Lily and then in a successful but covert effort to protect her son, is
a natural progression, not inconsistency but development. (I would add
his concern for others, saving the life of anyone he could save, even
an enemy like Lupin, to his development. YMMV.)

Alla:
> So, yes to me him coming back is a major major change in his  character.

Carol:
I agree. But that makes him dynamic, not inconsistent, according to
most literary critics that I'm familiar with. An inconsistent
character is one whose personality and traits are always fluctuating,
as distinct from a dynamic character who develops according to a
logical pattern. (Of course, a character can *appear* to be
inconsistent if he's viewed from an unreliable perspective, but I'm
not talking about that here.)

A character can be inconsistent for two reasons. The first is a weak
personality, easily swayed and unable to stick firmly to convictions.
Whatever we may say of Snape, I don't think we can call him wavering.
Once he makes up his mind to opppose Voldemort and protect Harry, he
never changes it, whatever his personal feelings in the matter. (He
does not, however, make up his mind to treat Harry, that "mediocre,"
"arrogant" son-of-a-Potter, nicely. <smile>)

The second reason for a character's inconsistency is bad writing. A
character who is merely a plot device can be depicted inconsistently
because the author isn't concerned with his development, merely the
uses to which he can be put. I can't think of any examples from HP at
the moment; JKR is pretty good about keeping her characters
consistent, which is not the same as keeping them from developing and
growing. (Kreacher changes and develops but there's a reason for that
change and the potential for that clean, respectful Kreacher was
always there. So he's dynamic, not inconsistent--wavering and
fluctuating for no reason.) 

I think it was E. M. Forster (but I could be wrong and will happily
accept correction) who said that inconsistency in a character is
acceptable as long as he's "consistently inconsistent."

Regarding Snape, if he'd sometimes been nice to Harry instead of
consistently critical and (seemingly) unhelpful or if he'd been seen
smiling at Lupin in the hallway (in PoA) when he usually regards him
suspiciously, that would be inconsistent. But Snape, even when we see
a new side of him (the gracious host, to Narcissa, at least, in
"Spinner's End," for example, is always in character, always Snape.
(If he's inconsistently depicted anywhere, it's in the scene from "the
Prince's Tale" where he seems terrified of Dumbledore: "Don't kill
me!" That, to me, seemed OoC for Snape.)

Harry, too, changes and develops, or at least, it can be argued that
he does. (I know that some people see him as a static character.) But
except for moments like that Crucio in DH, he's consistently depicted
and behaves in a manner consistent with his established character
traits rather than wavering unpredictably or weakly. The same can be
said for Snape, even when he's casting an AK that he doesn't want to
cast, he's still Snape in both character traits (values, motives) and
personality (speech and behavior).

Carol, who agrees completely that (young) Snape changes but sees
nothing inconsistent about that change