Muggles v wizards redux

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 183260

> Kemper now:
> I don't have the canon, but doesn't she say/imply that she hasn't
told
> her parents anything with regards to Cedric and Voldemort returning
to
> power? This is information that she consciously does not discuss
with
> them. It is a lie of omission.


Alla:

I do not have the canon for that either, so I cannot confirm or
deny :). But if she does do that, I am not sure how it is different
from any magical child hiding stuff from their parents, even if some 
of the stuff that Hermione hides is easier to hide for her. Remember 
I am not disputing that Hermione lies. I am disputing that she treats 
her parents significantly differently than other kids do.


> Kemper now:
> I'm okay with the memory charm on the parents if the parents were in
> choice of that decision.
>
> If my magical child ever did that to me without it being my choice,
he
> better leave me that... because I will smite him.

Alla:

Quite honestly when I first read the interpretation that Hermione did
it without her parents agreeing to it, my first reaction was HUH.

Magpie:
Of course not. Muggles should get fair trials. Which would mean
Muggles and Wizards taking part in the trial. It's not like what
those boys did to Ariana was legal under Muggle law. They would have
gotten exactly the same treatment as if they'd assaulted a Muggle
girl.


Alla:

Yes, of course and that is why what Dumbledore's father did feels to
me as wrong while completely understandable.


Magpie:
She doesn't tell them what's going on at school--and neither does
Dean tell his parents. She bails on a ski vacation at the last minute
to stay with the Weasleys, lying to them that she's just decided to
stay at school at the last minute and study like all the kids who
care are going to do. She singles out telling them she's made Prefect
because "that's something they'll understand." She doesn't tell them
anything about what's going on 7th year (or most of the time, it
seems) and brainwashes them into thinking they're other people so
they'll move to Australia. Even her teeth fit the pattern when
Hermione fixes them herself over their objections. Again, that's not
something I really fault her for, but she's not rebelling against
their authority, she doesn't recognize them as having any authority.

This isn't a normal daughter/parents relationship. The plot reasons
for this are obvious, but it works easily because it completely goes
along with Wizard attitude towards Muggles in general. <SNIP>

Alla:

I really beg to differ about Hermione's relationship not being a
normal daughter/ parents relationship. So she lies to her parents
because she wants to either a) stay with the family of the boy she
likes every chance she gets or b) she wants to help the boy she and
the boy she likes best friends with. And again, I am not even talking
about justifications for what she does, since I find it irrelevant
for my argument. All that I am saying that I think Hermione does what
a lot of teenagers do. Sure the staff she does not tell her parents
may have been easily accessible to some of wizarding parents, but not
all of it. Ron also does not tell his family everything and while
some of it is known to them anyways, they are not for example privy
about the mission they go on with Harry and that has nothing to do
with them being wizards. It is just that a secret that Trio decided
not to share with anybody including their families.

And I also do not see where you see Hermione as not recognizing them
of having any authority. Sure, sometimes she is successful of
convincing them to let her stay with Weasleys. But despite the fact
that she would love to stay with Harry and Ron on Christmas break in
first book and figure out who Nicholas Flamel is, she goes home. And
she goes with her parents to France even though I think that if Ron
asked Weasleys would be happy to take her with them to Egypt. And she
does not even go shopping for books without her parents in CoS.


Magpie:

It would be touching if we were talking about Hermione's pet dogs
that she selflessly robbed of all memory of her and sent to live on a
farm where they'd be happier--since anyway it's not like they could
understand anyway. Her treating two grown, intelligent human beings
the same way is, imo, chilling. Even more so since the book always
takes the attitude that it's Hermione who's the victim here because
she "has to" lie and manipulate them because they're Muggles.


Alla:

Yes I find the anguish of the daughter who thinks that it is possible
that her parents will never recognize her because she is saving their
lives heart wrenching . But as I wrote to Kemper, before I read it on
the list it did not enter my mind that Hermione did it without her
parents consent. I acknowledge the other interpretation, but myself I
believe that Hermione sit her parents down and explained their
options and I happen to think that they would do so in order to avoid
accidentally giving out information about her.