GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 182164

> Pippin:
<SNIP>
> In any case the whole point is moot, because Crouch says, under
> veritaserum, that he did the murder before Harry ever arrived at
> Dumbledore's office. Here's the canon:
> 
> "You killed your father," Dumbledore said, in the same soft voice.
> "What did you do with the body?"
> 
> "Carried it into the forest. Covered it with the Invisibility 
Cloak. I
> had the map with me. I watched Potter run into the castle. He met
> Snape. Dumbledore joined them. I watched Potter bring Dumbledore 
out 
> of the castle. I walked out of the forest, doubled around behind 
them,
> went to meet them. I told Dumbledore Snape had told me where to 
come."
> 
> --GoF ch 35
> 
> As someone said, canon really ought to have resolved this point, and
> it does.


Alla:

Bravo, Pippin. This is what I call cold and hard canon fact. Yes, no 
matter how long Snape would have detained Harry, it looks like 
nothing could have saved poor Barty.

Having said that, this is not the only point I was making and I do 
not think that my point about Snape having his twisted fun with Harry 
is moot. I mean obviously people who think that Snape had other 
motivations are disagreeing with my point, but I do not see anything 
in your post that makes it moot.


Leah:
As to the newspaper, after the reading, Snape sits Harry at the
front
of the class and tells him, sotto voce, what he thinks is wrong with
Harry's behavior, in terms of rule breaking and in particular,
theft
from Snape's supplies. <SNIP>
so I think the newspaper reading is revenge for what Snape sees (not
entirely wrongly) as Harry's thieving and lying. Yes,
it is petty and childish, but not coming completely out of the
blue.


Alla:

Snipping rather arbitrarily, since I am responding to the whole 
quote. Snape does not bother to find out who stole his supplies; he 
just blames Harry as usual. And by the way why Harry is supposed to 
wonder about legality of Dobby acquiring gillyweed? And you are 
saying him blaming Harry for all that is not entirely wrong?

So, yes we agree that it was revenge on Snape's part, I just fail to 
see how the motives you described make Snape look better, or maybe I 
misunderstood you.

Snape sometimes guesses what Harry did correctly (well, not really as 
we know, he just reads Harry's mind without any permission 
whatsoever), but even when he does he is 99% wrong about Harry's 
motives, so 

Leah:
And it was very funny (sorry).

Alla:

LOL, believe me I am able to find some of Snape's remarks funny, 
while also finding them disgusting.

I do not find this one funny, but for example I totally find Snape's 
speech about Harry's head in Hogsmead to be very funny and I want to 
strangle him for his conduct there.

> Potioncat:
> 
> At the smallest sign of trouble, Snape would step in save the day. 
Just 
> like Superman and his billowing cape.  ;p 
> 
> Actually, if your interpretation is correct, and Snape is keeping 
Harry 
> from DD (rather than holding him for DD)--he could be doing it to 
find 
> out what is wrong and to deal with it himself. I don't think so, 
but I 
> can see that slant. I can't see just keeping him away for the fun 
of it.

Alla:

Snape keeping Harry FROM Dumbledore is NOT my interpretation at all I 
find it to be quite weak one and I hope I described upthread why I 
believe so.

Just as it is not my interpretation that Snape is keeping Harry FOR 
Dumbledore, BUT I can see this one being logical and plausible and in 
my mind it carries the same weight as the one which you cannot see 
Snape doing here - just keeping Harry here for the pure fun of it.

That is exactly what I think is happening. I do not think Snape is 
engaged in any other purposes whatsoever except having his twisted 
fun, although again I can totally see Dumbledore asking Snape to do 
it, to detain Harry I mean.

Potioncat:
> DD didn't do such a hot job there either. Of course, DD wasn't 
trying 
> to protect Harry; he was training him.

Alla:

Of course DD did not do a good job at all IMO.

Potioncat:
<BIG SNIP>
I will sort of concede that not "every" interaction between Snape and
Harry had a higher purpose. But quite a few of them have a different
intention than they seem at first glance.


PotioncatAlla:
And it is not like I do not see Snape ever having any purpose in his 
dealings with Harry besides having his twisted fun. Like what 
Montavilla said upthread about Snape threatening Harry with 
expulsion, I actually think after book 7 that while Snape would 
totally enjoy Harry being unhappy about leaving the only real home he 
ever had, I think that it is very possible that Snape thought that 
Harry would be safer somewhere else.

But most definitely I think that A LOT of Snape's encounters with 
Harry have no purpose besides his enjoyment. 

JMO,

Alla