[HPforGrownups] Re: GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry redux

[k12listmomma]

No: HPFGUIDX 182214

> Shelley wrote:
>> > Cowards- subject to opinion, no? What is the difference between
> the hiding  that James and Lilly did (to protect themselves and their
> baby), and the  hiding that Karkaroff did (to protect himself), and
> the hiding that so many  had to do during DH? How many families all
> had to run away, fearing  Voldemort? Even Hermione hid her parents.
>
> Pippin replied:
>> I think there is a big difference between helping someone else to go
> into hiding, and hiding yourself without any thought for other people.
> Karkaroff deserted his school and his students. There's no canon that
> he planned to be of use later on. There is canon that he was offered
> the chance to remain at Hogwarts and be of use immediately.
>
> Carol responds:
> I agree with Pippin. I think there's all the difference in the world
> between the Potters hiding because they were being especially targeted
> and needed to protect their child and Karkaroff hiding because he had
> informed on his fellow DEs and feared revenge. And he's contrasted
> both in GoF and DH with Snape, who chose not to run: "Flee, then!
> Flee! I will remain at Hogwarts." (Quoted from memory.)


Shelley:
But Snape isn't entirely truthful, here, now is he? He didn't tell Karkaroff 
he made a deal with Dumbledore to be a double agent. He didn't say that he 
planned to return to his former master, and pretent to serve him. No, he 
just says "I will remain at Hogwarts." In truth, in the end, he didn't fully 
remain at Hogwarts. He ran after killing Dumbledore, and came back only as 
an appointment from the DArk Lord.

But again, did Karkaroff merely fear revenge, or was he running because he 
chose not to serve the Dark Lord? In that respect, he is just like every 
other person who runs in DH- running from the Dark Lord and the MOM because 
they will not serve, or are being targeted because they cannot serve. Being 
on a hit list to die is the same no matter when it occurred- the first time 
around, or the second time around. Before the full rise of Voldemort, or 
after. They all had to protect themselves somehow, and in that respect, I 
see Karkaroff as no more of a coward than Dean or any of the Mudbloods. They 
were all running in a war that they individually couldn't win. Self 
protection is not the same as cowardess.

> Karkaroff is protecting no one but himself.

Shelley:
Isn't that true of the Mudbloods? Isn't that true of Dean Thomas?

> Even Voldemort contrast the
> two, with Karkaroff referred as "one too cowardly to return" and Snape
> as "one who, I believe, has left me forever" (again quoted from
> memory. IMO, Voldemort was right on both counts.

Shelley:
I take Voldemort's statements as self-serving- by "too cowardly to return", 
he means not willing to let me torture him and murder him in front of other 
Death Eaters. Not the same as true cowardess, now is that?

BTW, the two there aren't named, so you are assuming that phrase refers to 
Karkaroff and Snape. I think that statement "one who has left me forever" 
could refer to Karkaroff, for indeed, his loyalties had changed, and he 
never planned to return.