GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry redux

[Carol]

No: HPFGUIDX 182216

Carol earlier:
> > I agree with Pippin. I think there's all the difference in the
world between the Potters hiding because they were being especially
targeted and needed to protect their child and Karkaroff hiding
because he had informed on his fellow DEs and feared revenge. And he's
contrasted both in GoF and DH with Snape, who chose not to run: "Flee,
then! Flee! I will remain at Hogwarts." (Quoted from memory.)
> 
> 
> Shelley:
> But Snape isn't entirely truthful, here, now is he? He didn't tell
Karkaroff he made a deal with Dumbledore to be a double agent. He
didn't say that he 
> planned to return to his former master, and pretent to serve him.
No, he 
> just says "I will remain at Hogwarts." In truth, in the end, he
didn't fully 
> remain at Hogwarts. He ran after killing Dumbledore, and came back
only as 
> an appointment from the DArk Lord.
> 
> But again, did Karkaroff merely fear revenge, or was he running
because he 
> chose not to serve the Dark Lord? In that respect, he is just like
every 
> other person who runs in DH- running from the Dark Lord and the MOM
because 
> they will not serve, or are being targeted because they cannot
serve. Being 
> on a hit list to die is the same no matter when it occurred- the
first time 
> around, or the second time around. Before the full rise of
Voldemort, or 
> after. They all had to protect themselves somehow, and in that
respect, I 
> see Karkaroff as no more of a coward than Dean or any of the
Mudbloods. They 
> were all running in a war that they individually couldn't win. Self 
> protection is not the same as cowardess.
> 
> > Karkaroff is protecting no one but himself.
> 
> Shelley:
> Isn't that true of the Mudbloods? Isn't that true of Dean Thomas?
> 
> > Even Voldemort contrast the
> > two, with Karkaroff referred as "one too cowardly to return" and Snape
> > as "one who, I believe, has left me forever" (again quoted from
> > memory. IMO, Voldemort was right on both counts.
> 
> Shelley:
> I take Voldemort's statements as self-serving- by "too cowardly to
return", 
> he means not willing to let me torture him and murder him in front
of other 
> Death Eaters. Not the same as true cowardess, now is that?
> 
> BTW, the two there aren't named, so you are assuming that phrase
refers to Karkaroff and Snape. I think that statement "one who has
left me forever" could refer to Karkaroff, for indeed, his loyalties
had changed, and he never planned to return.
>

Carol responds:
What isn't truthful about "I, however, will remein at Hogwarts? Snape
does exactly that even after the unthinkable happens and he's forced
to kill Dumbledore. But at that time, he's simply saying that even
though LV is returning, he's not going to run away. He's going to
remain at Hogwarts, with Dumbledore (and Harry). it doesn't matter
that karkaroff doesn't know why snape is staying. it matters that he
stays to endanger himself by spying for dumbledore and to protect
Harry, to keep his promise rather than, like Karkaroff, to save his
skin. (I'd as soon call Wormtail courageous as use that term for
Karkaroff.) In "the Prince's Tale," Dumbledore acknowledges Snape's
courage, in contrast to Karkaroff's cowardice, giving him the
left-handed compliment about Sorting too soon (i.e., Snape is worthy
of being in Gryffindor, the House that celebrates courage).

And, no, I'm not assuming with regard to which of the former DEs is
which. Barty Jr. is, of course, the faithful servant at Hogwarts, and
if we can't tell by contrasting their actions which is the coward and
which is the rebel, JKR gives us the answer herself in "Spinner's
End." It's canonical that Snape is the one that LV thought had left
him forever. Snape (who wasn't even present in the graveyard) uses
those very words with regard to himself when he's answering
Bellatrix's questions (all of which Voldemort has previously asked and
he has satisfactorily, if not entirely truthfully, answered. LV had no
reason to suspect that Karkaroff was loyal to Dumbledore, as he
(rightly) suspected that Snape was. And I don't see Harry calling
karkaroff "probably the bravest man I ever knew."

Snape did not "flee" Voldemort (or desert Hogwarts) in "the Sacking of
Severus Snape." He went where he had to go, to find out whether Nagini
was being protected and inform Harry of the need to sacrifice himself.
He could do nothing more to protect the students with McGonagall
trying to kill him. (Note that he doesn't try to kill her; he just
blocks her moves.) He has other duties to perform for Dumbledore, and
he dies performing them.

Carol, who thinks that Harry's naming his second son Albus Severus
says everything we need to know about Snape's incredible courage