GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry redux

[julie]

No: HPFGUIDX 182268


> 
> Julie previously:
> Snape very likely saved Harry and the WW from a terrible fate,
> even if he did so without a shred of noble intent initially.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, I will give you Snape saving WW from a terrible fate **without 
a 
> shred of noble intent initially**. But I am speechless at the 
> assertion of Snape saving Harry from terrible fate by telling the 
> prophecy. Which fate that 
> would be that Snape saved him from? Snape saved him from growing up 
> with loving family possibility ( yes, it is just a possibility, but 
> that is all I am discussing – possibilities in this thread and no, 
I 
> cannot discount this possibility)

Julie now:
Sorry you're speechless but I clearly outlined my reasons
(now snipped, but repeated by others) why Harry and the WW
would have suffered a terrible fate at Voldemort's takeover,
and why I deduced from the text that takeover was all but
inevitable. And while *terrible* fate might be a bit strong,
but at least in the prophecy-revealed-by-Snape world Harry
does ultimately achieve a happy life. No such likelihood in
a LV-controlled world, methinks.

> 
> Julie earlier:
> He simply didn't have the power to change their ultimate fate.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> LOL. I can give him a hint – not deliver prophecy to Voldemort and 
> here you go, their fate may have been changed, no prophecy couple, 
no 
> Chosen one.
> 

Julie:
What I meant was that the Potters would have ended up dead
or cruelly subjugated if Voldemort took over the WW, and 
short of something unexpected happening that was exactly
where the war was heading. Snape didn't have the raw power
to change that, even if he'd decided he wanted to (to save
Lily or some such). Not even Dumbledore was slowing Voldy
down in VW1 after all.

To summarize:
Voldy and the DEs were winning the war.

Voldy was picking off the Order members one by one.

Dumbledore had NO idea about the Horcruxes (a fact that
I don't recall seeming mentioned yet) and wouldn't until
and unless Voldy was "killed" by the rebounded AK yet 
didn't fully die. So DD couldn't hunt them if he wasn't
even aware of them. I don't see any reason that he would
have become aware of them by any other manner than Voldy
"dying." Yet no one (perhaps not even Dumbledore) was his
equal in battle and could deliver that killing blow.

SOMETHING unexpected had to happen that would stop Voldy's
inexorable march toward victory. We have no indication of
any possibilities in the wings (like wizards from other
countries joining the war in mass). 

The unexpected did happen of course, thanks to the Prophecy,
and to Snape's actions in revealing it, and also his actions 
AFTERWARD in going to Dumbledore. (Not to mention later 
actions by James, Sirius, Peter, and Lily--and it doesn't
matter whether those actions were intended to help or harm,
they still all affected the outcome).

Again, I don't let Snape off the hook for revealing the 
Prophecy in the first place. He didn't let himself off the
hook either, when he went to Dumbledore and when he continued
to protect Harry at Hogwarts. And those later actions are
mitigating circumstances for me that, while they don't erase
his crime, they do absolve him to a certain degree (not
completely, mind you). I can't say the same for Peter.

I know! IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR SNAPE it wouldn't have happened.
He may have "started" it from a certain POV though one could
argue that Merope started it by tricking Tom Sr, or that 
Dumbledore started it by not reining in the obvious psychopath
student when he had the chance, or by taking a hands-off 
approach to students which allowed them to be influenced by
parents and peers without so much as a single word of 
encouragement toward a better path from the leader of the 
Good Guys. One could go on and on.

But of all of them, only Peter never ONCE acted for the 
good of someone besides himself, and never repented his
evil actions. And the same holds for him as for anyone
involved; the Potters were safe and could have remained
in hiding at least until Voldy won the war and beyond (if
that would have been acceptable to them)IF IT HADN'T
BEEN FOR PETER. If, say, he'd kept his mouth shut, or
someone had accidentally cut off his head or something ;-)

Julie, thinking Snape has a lot to feel guilty for but
is still a far better person and far more deserving of
redemption than Peter will ever be.