GoF CH 27-29 Post DH look/ Snape and Harry redux

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 182274

Leah:
Just for the record, at no time does Snape ask *DD* just to
save Lily. He tells DD that Voldemort believes the prophecy to
refer to Lily Evans, or rather her child, and ends by saying that
Voldemort intends to 'kill them all'. It is DD who then asks why
Snape has not asked Voldemort to spare Lily, and Snape of course
says he already has done. It is that which 'disgusts' DD (and he is
a fine one to talk). From what Voldemort says in DH, Snape
presumably asks for Lily as the object of his desire, which would be
the one convincing reason for a DE asking for the life of a
muggleborn. I can not think of any way in which Snape could
convincingly have asked Voldemort for the lives of James and Harry
(the prophecy child himself) without getting himself AK'd and
sealing Lily's fate. After DD does the 'disgusted' bit, Snape
says, 'Save them all'.

Alla:
That's not a record though, but your interpretation of it, which I
accept as interpretation, but certainly not a cold hard fact. My
intepretation is that this is exactly what Snape did – come to ask
Dumbledore for life of Lily and life of Lily only and had Dumbledore
not bullied him into asking for protection of others and later into
protecting Harry, he would have never done it.

Here is the record ( boy that took a long time to type up for such
slow typist as me) and what I think of it afterwards. Pages 543-544
of british edition

"Snape was wringing his hands; he looked a little mad, with his
straggling, black hair flying around him.

I – I come with a warning – no, a request, please-"

Dumbledore flicked his wand. Though leaves and branches still flew
through the night air around them, silence fell on the spot where he
and Snape faced each other.
"What request could a Death Eater make of me?"
"The- the prophecy
 the prediction
 Trelawney
"
"Ah yes," said Dumbledore.. "How much did you relay to Lord
Voldemort?"
"Everything – everything I heard!" said Snape. "That is why - it is
for that reason – he thinks it means Lily Evans!"
"The prophecy did not refer to a woman," said Dumbledore. "It spoke
of a boy born at the end of July-"
"You know what I mean! He thinks it means her son, he is going to
hunt her down – kill them all-"
"If she means so much to you, said Dumbledore, "surely Lord Voldemort
will spare her? Could you not ask for mercy for mother in exchange
for the son?"
"I have – I have asked him-"
"You disgust me," said Dumbledore, and Harry had never heard so much
contempt in his voice. Snape seemed to shrink a little.
"You do not care, then about the deaths of her husband and child?
They can die, as long as you have what you want?"
Snape said nothing but merely looked at Dumbledore.
"Hide them all, then," he croaked. "Keep her – them- safe. Please"
"And what will you give me in return Severus?"

Alla:

I am cutting it out here since for my purposes it is enough. Snape
comes to Dumbledore with a **request**, for the reason of prophecy
that he thinks that Voldemort thinks relates to Lily. Honestly, to me
it is the only interpretation. IMO The book is telling us that this 
is exactly
what Snape did first – asked Voldemort for life of Lily and only
Lily. And when it is failed, he came to Dumbledore to do the same
thing – to ask for life of Lily and only Lily.

And even when Dumbledore does the disgusted bit, Snape still says his
true intentions IMO – at first he says only what Dumbledore wants to
hear IMO – hide them all, and then – keep HER – them – safe.

No, to me that is exactly what Snape does. IMO of course.

And why Dumbledore is the fine one to talk? Do you mean that he also
committed actions that we should be disgusted about? I agree then.
But if you mean that since he committed bad actions, he cannot call
disgusting action for what it is, I disagree.

No matter who evaluates what Snape did, IMO it is disgusting. When I
reread this bit, I was disgusted with him, but for a different
reason.

What will you give me in return Severus? Huh, Dumbledore? You would
not save Order members unless Snape will give you something in
return? NICE.

And eh, of course Snape could not have asked Voldemort for James and 
Harry's lives. I am disgusted that he did not ask Dumbledore, that's 
all. And of course Snape did not even have to do that – ask anybody. 
Then he would have remained a rotten DE. I am looking at him as the 
person who wanted to repent and yes, half decent person IMO should 
have begged Dumbledore to save people who are in increased danger 
thanks to him.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
That's not the point. Of course any action that happened in the story
is going to follow earlier events and so come back to Harry. But if
you just remove what needs to happen from this story, so we're not
trying to keep the story exactly the same without the central
character, obviously there are other ways to get Basilisk venom than
via Harry Potter. It's not about asking whether Ron could have done
it if Harry was suddenly erased from the picture at that moment
(along with everything he'd ever done) it's just saying that it's not
impossible to imagine other ways that Voldemort could have still been
taken out given what we know about him. <SNIP>

Alla:

YES. Thank you. Since others obviously express their thoughts so much
better than me, I will just borrow from you and stick Me too here.