Re: CHAPDISC: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Chapter 17, Bathilda’s Secret

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 182356

<snip of awesome summary by akh to get to...> 
>
> akh's Questions:
> 2. We've waited for seven books to get our first glimpse of the 
> house in Godric's Hollow. How satisfying was the scene where Harry 
> finally sees his family home?

SSSusan:
I do remember thinking, "Finally!"  I think, though, that I need to 
actually look at it again to see if it disappoints in any way.  
Mostly, this chapter simply CREEPED ME OUT so much that I think the 
creepy parts just overshadowed the visit to the house.

I did think the commemorative sign that rose up with cool. :)  (And 
couldn't believe Hermione was indignant about the graffiti, sheesh.  
I was with Harry in thinking the messages of support were great.)


> 4. As Harry and Hermione enter the house, the description of 
> Bathilda is actually a series of clues as to her state. Of course, 
> we all have the advantage of hindsight; did any of this set off 
> alarms for you on the first read?

SSSusan:
Other than generalized discomfort and trepidation, there was nothing 
so specific for me that I thought, "Trap!"  Reading your summary, 
especially, it struck me how "obvious" it was/should have been, but 
nope, I wasn't sure what was up.


> 5. Harry's locket is again alive; should he have guessed that
> something was amiss by its behavior?

SSSusan:
Well, yeah.  That one I think he should've caught onto.

 
> 6. How much of the mess in Bathilda's house do you suppose is really
> the poor dear's own clutter and how much should have been a warning
> to Harry and Hermione that something was terribly wrong?

SSSusan:
I think Harry's having spent time with Mrs. Figg over the years might 
have actually worked against him a bit here.  Smelly, mussy homes 
might not have seemed that out of the ordinary.  And, frankly, I 
think Harry was so pumped by the belief that he'd found Bathilda that 
he was inclined to ignore a lot of stuff.  (Something Voldy might 
well have counted on, no?)  

In a way, there also may have been a bit of a "DD knows and plans 
all" kind of backfire going on.  Both Harry & Hermione seemed to 
believe that Bathilda could have been on the lookout for Harry, on 
DD's orders, and that belief probably led somewhat to them letting 
their guard down.  


> 7. Although the outcome of the visit was not what I expected (to say
> the least), I felt the tension was built well in this scene, and I
> was primed for some sort of surprise. What was your response to the
> buildup? Did you speculate correctly on the surprise outcome?
> 
> 8. This chapter contains one of the most grisly (if not THE most
> grisly) scenes in the HP series. What was your initial reaction to
> the – er – unveiling of Bathilda?

SSSusan:
Answering two in one here 'cause they're kind of related for me.  
Hell no, I didn't anticipate the surprise!  I was too busy being 
totally GROSSED OUT by the description of the smelly house and then 
Bathilda's "transformation" that I just wanted it to be over!

I have to say, as much as it's not a chapter I like to revisit 
because of the creep factor (and I wondered whether anyone would 
volunteer to lead this chapter because of it <g>), I think it was a 
very *effective* chapter.  I thought it was very, very exciting and 
entertaining, and the tension buildup worked tremendously well.

I'm pretty sure anyone nearby as I was reading this (hey, Jen!) would 
have heard me verbalize a very loud, "Gross!"  


> 9. Again, we finally get another scene we've been waiting to see for
> seven books: the deaths of James and Lily Potter and Voldemort's
> destruction. How did the scene live up to your expectations?  What
> did it elucidate that had been unclear previously? (I realize that
> much of this has been discussed.)

SSSusan:
Maybe this is morbid of me, but I almost wanted more.  More detail, a 
little more time spent with it.  It was an interesting way of having 
it come out... I mean, it ended up just replaying via a Voldy!vision, 
which could have happened ANYwhere and ANY time between Voldy and  
Harry.  It really didn't even *have* to have taken place the same 
night Harry actually finally went to GH.  So that was all interesting.

I think, down deep, as exciting a scene as this ended up being, I 
might've been even more interested to have seen my old pet prediction 
borne out somehow:  that Baby!Harry, by virtue of his early sensory 
capabilities, did have that memory inside himself all this time.  He 
didn't have the capacity to go back & see or interpret much of it 
himself, but since we know that an extracted memory contains more 
than the person him/herself remembers and that one, via a pensieve, 
can actually walk about a bit within a memory, I had always kind of 
wanted someone to bring this to Harry's attention (or via his own 
realization) and have him do that.

OTOH, that might have been incredibly hard for Harry to have to make 
himself do.  Perhaps having it all thrust upon him in this scary, one-
fell-swoop manner was actually the "easier" way for him??


> 10. Voldemort is a pathological liar, although we know parts of the
> Potter death scene are true, thanks to Harry's Dementor memories. 
> How reliable are LV's memories of the fateful night in this case?

SSSusan:  
What a fascinating question.  It had never occurred to me that the 
memory might not be accurate.  I'd love to read someone's ideas who 
thinks that it might not be.


> 11. This chapter points up yet again one of JKR's themes: the
> vicissitudes of friendship. Do you think Lily and James were too
> trusting of the Fidelius charm, and they should have been armed
> constantly? What was your reaction to the picture of DD and
> Grindelwald arm in arm? Do you think Harry and Hermione's
> relationship altered any as a result of the events of that night?

SSSusan:
An interesting placement of these questions together. :)  I'd never 
have thought to bring in the aspect of friendships this way.  

I don't have any thoughts, really, about James & Lily being too 
trusting.  I guess yeah, they should've been armed along with the FC, 
but would it have mattered in the end?

Re: the photo, I do remember on the first read having that "Oh, oh! 
This is important!" thought when Harry encountered it.  I couldn't 
quite piece it all together yet (of course), but it was that niggling 
sense of, "Where have we seen this guy?  What does it mean?" And 
wondering why it was in Bathilda's house.

Re: H/H's friendship.  This one's hard.  I do think when one friend 
does something -- even wholly unintentional & accidental -- that 
causes a real hardship for another friend, it adds a strain to the 
relationship.  That strain could come out of the one friend's 
resentment, the other friend's guilt, and/or any combination of 
sensing or anticipating those thoughts & emotions in the other.  I 
think we did catch glimpses of all of that at various times.  

Siriusly Snapey Susan