CHAPDISC: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Chapter 17, Bathildas Secret

[becks3uk]

No: HPFGUIDX 182360

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------
> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows,
> Chapter 17, Bathilda's Secret
>
>
> 3. "Bathilda" seems to be able to see Harry and Hermione beneath
> the Invisibility Cloak. Does this mean that Nagini can see through
> Cloaks? Does LV know they're there and communicates it to Nagini?
> Clearly, someone is there, since the sign has risen out of the
> ground, but how does LV!Nagini know where they're standing?

Becks3uk:

I don't think it has anything to do with being able to see through
invisibility cloaks. Snakes have an amazing sense of smell - unlike
a wizard, the snake would have been able to smell them and knowing
that they could not be seen, would have deduced that they were
hiding which made it assume that they were Potter and friend - the
snake did after all still have to check when she asked - 'You are
Potter?'

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 4. As Harry and Hermione enter the house, the description of
> Bathilda is actually a series of clues as to her state. Of course,
> we all have the advantage of hindsight; did any of this set off
> alarms for you on the first read?

becks3uk:

Yes, I was suspicious about her but did not guess it was the snake
until really quite late on.

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 5. Harry's locket is again alive; should he have guessed that
> something was amiss by its behavior?

becks3uk:

He did guess that something was up but he assumed that the locket
was frightened because his 'destroyer was close'. He desperately
wanted to believe it was Bathilda because he wanted the sword so he
assumed that that was a good sign.

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 6. How much of the mess in Bathilda's house do you suppose is
> really the poor dear's own clutter and how much should have been a
> warning to Harry and Hermione that something was terribly wrong?

becks3uk:

I believe that the mess would usually have alerted them that it was
more than mere clutter if it weren't for the fact that she was
acting so strange and that she was so old. I think they thought she
had severe dementia. Also, I think on a good day they might have sat
down and thought about all this but they were under enormous
pressure, strange things were happening all over the place; they
were cold and tired and really wanted this person to be the help
they were after. They were in such a perpetual state of being
frightened, cautious and hyper-aware of every little rustle of
leaves that they may have come to expect the strange and therefore
weren't so aware of it, if you know what I mean (not sure I do now!)
I think it was one of those situations where you are really scared
and unsure but you kind of have to do it anyway and have to go in
with a little faith.

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 7. Although the outcome of the visit was not what I expected (to say
> the least), I felt the tension was built well in this scene, and I
> was primed for some sort of surprise. What was your response to the
> buildup? Did you speculate correctly on the surprise outcome?

becks3uk:

I thought it was an excellent build up, very much the quiet before
the storm, I could really picture myself there and my heart was
racing. It was very slow and quiet, with the ascent upstairs and
everything. It really did build you up. I speculated that something
bad would happen but certainly not that!

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 8. This chapter contains one of the most grisly (if not THE most
> grisly) scenes in the HP series. What was your initial reaction to
> the – er – unveiling of Bathilda?

becks3uk:

Could have put it better than JKR - I was revolted!

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 10. Voldemort is a pathological liar, although we know parts of the
> Potter death scene are true, thanks to Harry's Dementor memories.
> How reliable are LV's memories of the fateful night in this case?

Becks3uk:

I think this was a genuine moment of Voldemort feeling emotion and
Harry getting a glimpse of his thoughts. I see no reason for him to
have made it up. I think it was JKR's moment of letting us know what
happened.

"akh" <anita_hillin at ...> wrote:
> 11. This chapter points up yet again one of JKR's themes: the
> vicissitudes of friendship. Do you think Lily and James were too
> trusting of the Fidelius charm, and they should have been armed
> constantly? What was your reaction to the picture of DD and
> Grindelwald arm in arm? Do you think Harry and Hermione's
> relationship altered any as a result of the events of that night?

becks3uk:

Very interesting question. Lily and James, yes I suppose the fact
they were so trusting was their downfall, which goes with the themes
of Dumbeldore as a trusting fool and Voldemort depising fools who
love. But I don't think its a case of being too trusting. I think
friendship requires that leap of faith, you have to stake your trust
in someone or you will never prosper. (If Dumbeldore hadn't extended
his trust to Snape... yadayadayada). Yes, I do think Harry and
Hermione's friendship suffered but only in the short term due to
increasing stress, Harry's broken wand, spending too much time in
each other's pockets and moreover the locket having its effect.

All JMHO!

becks3uk