The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore/ some spoilers for Song for Arbonne

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 182757

Pippin:
<SNIP>
Dumbledore's mania for secrecy is criticized, his desire to protect
people from making poor decisions by not letting them make any
decisions at all is roundly denounced. Dumbledore was definitely
dangerous to know. But if we were supposed to think that he was mad or
bad, I don't think Dead!Dumbledore would have said "good-bye for the
present" -- sorry to disappoint you, but Dumbledore is not going to be
burning in any imaginary hells, not unless Harry expects to end up
there as well!

Alla:

Quite frankly, I do not care what we are supposed  to think about 
Dumbledore, I have my well formed opinion of him and it is what it 
is. As I mentioned before, I do forgive him, but certainly not with 
such eagerness as Harry did and certainly not for everything. I think 
some of his actions were mad or bad, or both, but I am aware that 
this was not author's intention. She just did not convince me.
So, yes I know she did not want him to burn, I sometimes do.

As I am sure you know since I mentioned it quite a few times here 
that I am in love with Guy Gavriel Kay's book "A Song for Arbonne". 
There is a character in that book, who is basically in charge of the 
country during medieval times since her husband died. If you read 
this book, I can just tell you that I believe that this is the leader 
from whom I believe Dumbledore should have taken leadership lessons. 
And believe me, her country faced very tough times expecting to be at 
war and being at war, and she had to make VERY tough decisions.

But see the difference is that never for a second I had any doubt 
that she cared about people whom she rules first and foremost and 
only in that light 

There are several decisions she has to make there which to me smell 
of manipulating people and trust me, all of those decisions are for 
the greater good for real. Those decisions are of different 
importance though. In one instance she flat out refuses to manipulate 
two people, even though it would have made  a point to their enemy to 
demonstrate their unity. In another instance she is shown to be 
thinking over the plan, which sort of requires manipulation but going 
along with it.

There is a third decision which to me is the most important one and 
as we end up learning she makes it with no hesitation, but I 
sincerely doubt that if you read the book that this decision was made 
out of most dire necessity ever and it indeed eventually saves their 
country. And heeee, she keeps it a secret indeed till this is all 
over.
She is shown to care about people, to know their psychology very 
well, unlike Dumbledore IMO and she is shown to be unwilling to hurt 
people without dire necessity of winning the war.

Yes, I think Dumbledore should have taken lessons from Signe, doubt 
that it will help. But I for example sincerely doubt that she would 
have let Sirius sit in that house, knowing that he will go crazy 
without having something to do and so many other things.

That's what I was hoping Dumbledore will end being shown - yes, 
person who made many tough decisions, but all of those decisions 
being made while caring about people, valuing life, agonizing over 
them. Yeah, right. In much agony he is while telling Snape to inform 
Voldemort about the Order, NOT.


Pippin:
<SNIP>
If JKR wanted us to think that Dumbledore could have found a way to
avoid more deaths if he'd tried harder or thought about it more, IMO,
she'd have had someone say so.<SNIP>

Alla:

I think by showing those scenarios, she made me think so, yes. 

Pippin:
<SNIP>
In the Potterverse, there doesn't got to be a way that Fudge could
have reached out to the Giants or banished the dementors without
alienating his supporters. There doesn't got to be a way Dumbledore
could have survived the ring curse. There doesn't got to be a way that
Snape could have saved Charity Burbage. There doesn't got to be a way
to make the House-elves embrace the idea of freedom, there doesn't got
to be a way to make the Slytherins less selfish or the Gryffindors
less arrogant, why with all these harsh realities to be accepted
should I think there was a way to get Harry away from Privet Drive
without Voldemort knowing?
<SNIP>

Alla:

So  the assumption  is that even if Dumbledore would not tell Snape 
to betray the date to Voldemort, he would have found out anyways? I 
cannot make such assumption. 
And not that I find all those situations to be relevant, but out of 
curiosity how does it work? Fudge being stupid and not reaching out 
to other races, means that there was just no way to do it? I see it 
as Fudge making a wrong choice and not doing it, not that he just 
could not do it.


Pippin:
Where does it say Dumbledore doesn't care about Snape's soul? He says,
"You alone know whether it will harm your soul to help an old man
avoid pain and humiliation" -- in other words, whether allowing a
doomed old man to die with dignity and in the service of the cause
for which he dedicated most of his life would be an act of supreme 
evil. 

Alla:

Yes, I know what he said. But the thing is when we first heard about 
murder splitting the soul, there was no indication that the person 
alone knows whether it will be so or not, isn't it?

I took this as piece of rhetoric, which Dumbledore most likely knew 
was a lie. IMO of course.