CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 184816

Pippin:
Thanks, Carol, for the very thorough summary and questions.
Nice work!

> Discussion Questions:
> 
> 1.  Why do you think that JKR (or the narrator) refers to Snape
> as "the Prince" here and in "The Flight of the Prince" in HBP?

Pippin:
I think the DH title is chosen to match the one in HBP. "Flight of the
Prince" has a twofold effect. One, it continues the mystery of the
Prince's identity, and two, it echoes  the literal meaning of
Voldemort -- "Flight from Death". 


> 2. Voldemort gives the Hogwarts staff one hour to "dispose of
[their] dead with dignity" and treat the injured while he waits in the
> Forbidden Forest. Assuming that he means what he says, how do you
> think he expects them to "dispose of" the dead?

Pippin:
Perhaps he's expecting them to magically entomb them, as with
Dumbledore. Could he be looking forward to desecrating some more
graves? (Yiuch, sorry I thought of that.)
> 
> 3.  Lupin and Tonks lie "pale and still and peaceful-looking,
> apparently asleep beneath the dark, enchanted ceiling." This
> description seems to echo that of the dead Dumbledore in HBP--
> "Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the strange angle of his
arms and legs, he might have been sleeping"—and that of his peacefully
> sleeping portrait. What do you think JKR is saying about death
> through these descriptions? Do they seem to refer to death in
general or only to these particular deaths?

Pippin:
I don't know if there's any difference between those who die shocked
and staring, and those who die and seem to be asleep. Perhaps it's
meant to indicate a more enlightened attitude on the part of the
latter -- that death didn't come as a shock to them because they've
accepted it, like sleep, as a part of life. 

 
> 4. Harry blurts out "Dumbledore!" and the door to the stairway
> leading to the headmaster's office opens. When and why do you think
> the password changed and who or what changed it?

Pippin:
It could be a backdoor or master password arranged by Dumbledore
himself. Only someone who believed that Dumbledore wouldn't be truly
gone from Hogwarts as long as some there were still loyal to him would
use it.


> 5. Little Severus is described as "stringy," the same word that the
> narrator uses to describe both the teenage Severus and Theodore Nott
> in OoP. Did you think of Theo when you read the description of
little Severus, and, if so, what connection, if any, did you see
between the two Slytherin boys?

Pippin:
I didn't make the connection, but it's interesting now you point it
out. I think it just shows that even in Harry's eyes, not all
Slytherins exude an air of menace. 

 
> 6. What do you make of the description of Severus as "batlike" in
his oversized coat? Why does JKR continually connect Snape with bats?

Pippin:
Because he's a vampire! (Sorry, sorry) But Siriusly, the oversize
clothes are an obvious parallel with Harry. Perhaps Snape is wearing
his father's hand-me-downs? Here, the bat comparison makes Snape look
comical, where as in earlier canon it made him menacing. So perhaps
this is JKR's way of, er,  de-fanging the bat metaphor.

 
> 7. Since Lily has no way of knowing about prejudice against Muggle-
> borns in the WW, why do you think she's worried that being a Muggle-
> born might "make a difference"? Given Severus's remark that Lily can
> do "loads" of magic, might the two children be talking about magical
> ability rather than prejudice against Muggle-borns? If not, why
would he make that remark in that context?

Pippin:
Prejudice against outsiders isn't confined to the wizarding world. In
fact, Lily's seen the way her sister treated Snape -- as "that Snape
boy" whose address is not a recommendation. Snape, who probably has
been told that most Muggleborns  are less magically talented than
average, may not think that the WW attitude towards them is prejudice.
Snape might therefore naively expect that since Lily is obviously not
inferior magically, she'll be treated the same as a pureblood witch. 

> 
> 8. Severus tells Lily that only wizards who "do really bad stuff"
are sent to Azkaban. What does this remark reveal about his sense of
good and evil and age nine or ten?

Pippin:
It shows he has one, at any rate. He has moral fear, unlike Voldemort.

> 
> 9. Severus is obviously lying when he denies dropping the tree
branch on Petunia, but neither his words nor his "scared and defiant"
> expression make clear whether the magic is accidental or deliberate.
> Which do you think it is and why? Why doesn't something similar
> happen to James and Sirius in SWM where Severus is also wandless?

Pippin:
It's possible that Severus didn't realize at once that he'd done
accidental magic, just as Harry didn't realize that he'd made the
glass disappear.  But accidental magic seems to happen much less
frequently once wizards partner with their wands.

> 
> 10. Why does Petunia call Lily a "freak" (the same word that she
uses in SS/PS some twenty years later)? What justification, if any, do
you see for her view that sending "weirdos" like Lily and Severus to
Hogwarts will protect the "normal people"? Do you see any connection
with the Statute of Secrecy?

Pippin:
There's an ongoing dialog in canon about what's monstrous and what's
"interestin'". Petunia's a bit like Fudge; she doesn't want to accept
anything that threatens "the prospect of disruption in his
comfortable, ordered world" and she moves from someone who was "a
little blustering, a little pompous, but essentially well-meaning", to
someone who will get back at Lily any way she can.

The Statute of Secrecy, in keeping the two worlds apart, makes life
easier for the Fudges and Petunias on both sides of the divide -- at
some cost to both worlds. But JKR seems to feel most people are like
Fudge and Petunia, and will gladly trade wonder for predictability.

> 
> 11. How in the world did the Muggle Evanses get through the barrier
> onto Platform 9 3/4 (or is this scene a Flint)?

Pippin:
We've never been told that Muggles can't get through the barrier, have
we? It probably opens to anyone who walks through with a will, unless
it's been sealed by Dobby.

> 
> 12. James's words, "Who wants to be in Slytherin? I think I'd leave,
> wouldn't you?" mirror Draco's words about Hufflepuff in SS/PS. What
> do you think that JKR is saying here about James and Draco or House
> prejudice in general? And what's your reaction to James's imaginary
> Sword of Gryffindor, raised in defense of chivalry?

Pippin:
First, we don't know that James is imagining the sword of Gryffindor,
which is just as well, since there are no conditions of need or valor.
But I think JKR is showing us that House prejudice is not the province
of any particular House, and neither is bullying behavior. 


> 13. Why doesn't JKR identify the boy who calls out, "See ya,
> Snivellus"? Which boy do you think it was, and why do you think so?

Pippin:
It doesn't matter who coined the term any more than it matters which
wizard was the first to say "mudblood."

> 
> 14 What's the significance, if any, of Lucius Malfoy's patting
> Severus's back? Why include that detail?

Pippin:
It's the only time we ever see Lucius being nice to someone who's
socially beneath him. In a way, it explains Snape's "sudden movement"
in GoF -- it's a sign that there was some real friendship, IMO.

> 
> 15. Lily's version of the so-called Prank—Severus "sneaking" around
> the Shrieking Shack and being saved by James from "whatever's down
> there" sounds a lot like Sirius's version in PoA except that
everyone in the PoA scene knows what's down there. Do you think that
Sirius is Lily's source? Why or why not? Why do you think she rejects
> Severus's "theory" (obviously, that Lupin is a werewolf)?

Pippin:
Lily apparently doesn't know that Snape was able to enter the tunnel
because Sirius told him how to get in. And Snape, true to the
schoolboy's code, does not snitch on his enemy. It makes me wonder
what he thought he was going to do with the truth about the Marauders
if he had discovered it? Maybe he mostly wanted to prove to himself
that they weren't as wonderful as everyone thought. 

I don't think Lily cares one way or the other if Lupin is a werewolf,
but she's tired of hearing about it, and still more tired of Snape's
idea that this ought to make some difference in her attitude towards
Lupin or his friends. 

> 
> 16. Aside from not wanting to repeat a nine-page scene in detail,
why do you think JKR condenses Snape's worst memory to a single
> paragraph? Is the tactic effective? (The relevant paragraph is on
> page 675 of the Scholastic edition and page 542 of the Bloomsbury
> edition.)  Note especially the last line, "Distantly, he heard Snape
> shout at her in his humiliation and his fury, the unforgivable word:
> Mudblood.

Pippin:
I think it's effective. Those who want to re-read the scene in OOP
won't have any trouble finding it, since the chapter title helpfully
points the way. For those who remember only vaguely but don't care to
backtrack, the salient point is repeated and amplifed here. 

> 
> 17.  The adult Snape is marvelously articulate, often brilliantly
> sardonic and sometimes even poetic, yet the teenage Severus is often
> at a loss for words, and even the young adult Snape seems
tongue-tied in the hilltop scene with Dumbledore. What do you think
happened in the twelve or so years between the hilltop and Harry's
first year at Hogwarts to turn Snape into the snarky, sarcastic
Potions master that we encounter in SS/PS?

Pippin:
We know from the Prince's Book that young Snape was good with words --
he just didn't have the confidence to be good at speaking. The
inarticulate Snape returned in his final confrontation with Voldemort,
though I think that was feigned. 

Perhaps having a captive audience in his classes helped him gain
confidence. It might be that in earlier years, he relied even more on
the blackboard --perhaps to the good fortune of those who would
otherwise have been verbally scorched.
 
> 18. What do you think Dumbledore means when he tells Snape, "If I
> know [Harry], he will have arranged matters so that when he does set
> out to meet his death, it will truly mean the end of Voldemort"?

Pippin:
I think that's a hint that Dumbledore has guessed what Harry could do
-- not only dispose of the horcruxes but use the power of his death to
cast a spell of protection on Voldemort's enemies

 
> 19. We get only a few hints of what Harry is feeling as he witnesses
> these scenes, and yet he goes from hating Snape and wanting revenge
> against him to publicly defending him and ultimately naming his
> second son after him and Dumbledore. Aside from the shock of Snape's
> death, which scenes do you feel had the most impact on Harry's
change of heart and why?

Pippin:
Psychological research has shown that knowing about a friendship
between a member of your group and someone from a group that is
traditionally opposed can soften attitudes and lessen prejudice, even
in the absence of any other  anti-prejudice teaching.  For Harry just
to see that there had once been love and trust between Lily and Snape
probably made all the difference in the world to him. 
 
> 
> 20. Why did JKR choose these particular memories for this chapter?
> Why did *Snape* choose them?

Pippin:
We write sometimes as if JKR had the whole history of the WW and a
minute-by-minute biography of every character in front of her. But
everything is shaped (and in JKR's case, invented) around what Harry
needs to know. For Snape, IMO, it's the same. 
 
> 21. Did this chapter change or confirm your view of Snape? What
> surprised you? What disappointed you? How did you feel at the end of
> the chapter the first time through?

Pippin:
I was always a LOLLIPOPS supporter, so it was good to have the
confirmation I'd been hoping for, and expecting since The Silver Doe.
For the first time, though, I understood the complaints that
Snape/Lily would make Snape just too pathetic. (*I* don't think he's
too pathetic -- I'm  in awe that he could carry on in spite of such a
brutal psychological handicap--but now at least I understand the other
point of view.) On first reading, I, like Harry,  didn't take time to
react. The situation was too dire. 

Thanks again, Carol, and thanks to anyone whose read this far. 

Pippin