CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

[saturniia]

No: HPFGUIDX 184824

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...
> wrote:
>
> Discussion Questions:
>
> 1.  Why do you think that JKR (or the narrator) refers to Snape
> as "the Prince" here and in "The Flight of the Prince" in HBP?

I think she's saying that Snape had a certain amount of class.  He
wasn't as noble as Dumbledore or Harry, but he did show great
character in not quitting the Death Eaters (as Regulus would have
done had he not decided to screw over Voldie instead), in acting as
Dumbledore's confidante, and in acting with a certain fairness toward
the son of his greatest personal rival.

> 2. Voldemort gives the Hogwarts staff one hour to "dispose of
> [their] dead with dignity" and treat the injured while he waits in
> the Forbidden Forest. Assuming that he means what he says, how do
> you think he expects them to "dispose of" the dead?

Considering the fact that there's no evidence Voldemort would
hesitate to use the dead bodies of Order members and Hogwarts
students and alumni as inferi, I think he means "burn the bodies with
due ceremony" when he says "dispose of [their] dead with dignity".
Of course, he probably hopes they *won't*, but he's giving them the
option because he thinks he's won.  If they give over Potter, only he
dies.  The rest of them are just enslaved.  If they don't give over
Potter, he'll use any bodies he can animate in order to kill them
all.  Fallen comrades become enemies who can't be stopped.

> 3.  Lupin and Tonks lie "pale and still and peaceful-looking,
> apparently asleep beneath the dark, enchanted ceiling." This
> description seems to echo that of the dead Dumbledore in HBP--
> "Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the strange angle of his
> arms and legs, he might have been sleeping"—and that of his
> peacefully sleeping portrait. What do you think JKR is saying about
> death through these descriptions? Do they seem to refer to death in
> general or only to these particular deaths?

I think she's saying that death can be a welcome respite for one who
dedicates his or her life to fighting for a just cause.  I think it
refers to any death where the decedant is humanoid and the author
does not wish to generate shock or outrage.

> 4. Harry blurts out "Dumbledore!" and the door to the stairway
> leading to the headmaster's office opens. When and why do you think
> the password changed and who or what changed it?

I think it depends on how much the castle knows without being told.
*If* the castle knows when a legitimate headmaster dies, and *if* it
knows to keep the headmaster's office on lockdown during a crisis
situation, then Snape could have said "If I die, let someone in the
office if his password is 'Dumbledore'" before he left the last time
before/during the battle.

Or maybe it's something that would let any right person into the
unoccupied office.  In other words, it's one of the first
Headmasters' tests; Gryffindor's spell measures bravery or valor,
Hufflepuff's assesses the likelihood that the seeker acts in
deference to his or her community, Slytherin's tests whether the
subject can obtain the best results for the school, and Ravenclaw
would want a quester to be clever enough to answer an unspoken riddle.

> 8. Severus tells Lily that only wizards who "do really bad stuff"
> are sent to Azkaban. What does this remark reveal about his sense
> of good and evil and age nine or ten?

His sense of good and evil is average for a child of his age.  He has
a high level of faith in his community's government and judicial
system, and he appreciates that good wizards, neutral wizards who do
not harm others, and children under the age of eleven (who often
cannot control the effects of their magic) will not get sent to
Azkaban for accidental wizardry, or wearing robes in a Muggle village
when it's not Halloween, or committing a Quidditch violation.

> 9. Severus is obviously lying when he denies dropping the tree
> branch on Petunia, but neither his words nor his "scared and
> defiant" expression make clear whether the magic is accidental or
> deliberate. Which do you think it is and why? Why doesn't something
> similar happen to James and Sirius in SWM where Severus is also
> wandless?

I think the magic was accidental, to a point.  Severus probably
wished something unfortunate happened to Petunia, but had no idea
what would happen if his magic responded to that wish.  Snape's
talented, but he lives in a Muggle village.  He's not the sort of
wizard who'd have the luxury of practicing spells with his mother's
wand before he gets his own.

In SWM, Severus is older and a student.  His accidental magic doesn't
work for the same reason Harry's accidental magic no longer grows his
hair quickly or whisks him out of harm's way; as a student, he's
learned to expect magic to respond to conscious will.  The
implication is that accidental magic is a baby's tool.  Students,
even ones with their robes about their ears and their underpants
showing, are not babies.  Responding reflexively would be even more
embarassing than not responding at all.

> 10. Why does Petunia call Lily a "freak" (the same word that she
> uses in SS/PS some twenty years later)? What justification, if any,
> do you see for her view that sending "weirdos" like Lily and
> Severus to Hogwarts will protect the "normal people"? Do you see
> any connection with the Statute of Secrecy?

Lily's a "freak" because magic is something Petunia doesn't
understand, and also because she's jealous that this mysterious
ability makes her already less plain, less ordinary sister even more
special.  Her view that "weirdos" go to Hogwarts is personal
mythology that protects her pride.

What connection is there with the Statute of Secrecy?  I see none,
except that it might make Petunia even more resentful.  Not only does
Petunia resent magic, but she can't even talk to her Muggle friends
about what a freak her sister is, going off to some freaky school to
study freaky subjects and play or watch freaky games.

> 14 What's the significance, if any, of Lucius Malfoy's patting
> Severus's back? Why include that detail?

I don't think there's any significance beyond the appearance that all
houses greet new students the same way, with varying degrees of
enthusiasm.

> 15. Lily's version of the so-called Prank—Severus "sneaking" around
> the Shrieking Shack and being saved by James from "whatever's down
> there" sounds a lot like Sirius's version in PoA except that
> everyone in the PoA scene knows what's down there. Do you think
> that Sirius is Lily's source? Why or why not? Why do you think she
> rejects Severus's "theory" (obviously, that Lupin is a werewolf)?

If Lily doesn't know Remus is a werewolf, yes, I think Sirius is her
source.  It's the sort of thing Sirius would brag about to make his
best friend seem more important to the girl he likes.  In that
scenario, Lily rejects Severus's theory because someone like Lupin, a
werewolf?  It's extremely unlikely.  Why would a werewolf attend
Hogwarts?

However, it's possible clever Lily noticed the same things Severus
noticed, reached the same conclusion Severus reached, and reacted
very differently from the way Severus reacted.  Lily would likely be
both more direct and more compassionate toward Remus, asking him if
he's a werewolf, and trying to understand that if he's in the shack
he's nearly harmless during the full moon.

*If* Lily knew Remus was a werewolf, all any of the four would have
to say is that Severus tried to get into the shack and that James
stopped him.  "Whatever's down there" becomes a euphemism for "Remus
as a werewolf", and Lily rejects his theory in order to throw him off
the scent or try to guarantee his silence.

> 16. Aside from not wanting to repeat a nine-page scene in detail,
> why do you think JKR condenses Snape's worst memory to a single
> paragraph? Is the tactic effective? (The relevant paragraph is on
> page 675 of the Scholastic edition and page 542 of the Bloomsbury
> edition.)  Note especially the last line, "Distantly, he heard Snape
> shout at her in his humiliation and his fury, the unforgivable word:
> Mudblood."

In this chapter, the incident isn't relevant; all charcters present
and all readers who remember earlier books know how the incident
occured.  What *is* relevant is the insult and the effect it had on
Lily and Severus's increasingly strained friendship.

> 17.  The adult Snape is marvelously articulate, often brilliantly
> sardonic and sometimes even poetic, yet the teenage Severus is often
> at a loss for words, and even the young adult Snape seems tongue-
> tied in the hilltop scene with Dumbledore. What do you think
> happened in the twelve or so years between the hilltop and Harry's
> first year at Hogwarts to turn Snape into the snarky, sarcastic
> Potions master that we encounter in SS/PS?

I think it's just a case of growing up.  Maturity is gained through
more time, more studying, and an extreme focus on three things:
potions, dark arts/defense, and the task that lays before him:
educating Lily's son.

> 18. What do you think Dumbledore means when he tells Snape, "If I
> know [Harry], he will have arranged matters so that when he does set
> out to meet his death, it will truly mean the end of Voldemort"?

Since he knows Harry heard the prophecy's "neither can live while the
other survives" line, Dumbledore knows that Harry knows his death
might be unavoidable.  Because of that, Dumbledore knows Harry will
do everything in his power to ensure that if *he* can't kill
Voldemort, someone else *will*.  That means every horocrux except
Harry will have been destroyed before Harry would even think of going
to Voldemort.

> 19. We get only a few hints of what Harry is feeling as he witnesses
> these scenes, and yet he goes from hating Snape and wanting revenge
> against him to publicly defending him and ultimately naming his
> second son after him and Dumbledore. Aside from the shock of Snape's
> death, which scenes do you feel had the most impact on Harry's
> change of heart and why?

Who says the scenes he saw had to be the reason Harry changed his
mind?  I think it was more of the overall effect; the memories
Severus chose could have just been the ones from Harry's first
meeting with Voldemort and his school years, as those were the only
ones with any value to the endgame.  However, he added memories of
his childhood watching Lily and Petunia, his private moments with
Lily both before and after the "'mudblood' incident", and the scene
in Sirius's bedroom where he takes Lily's love, and her smile (but
not in a creepy way).

Harry was able to see his mother as a girl, and understand that
someone else loved her at least as much as his father did.  He was
able to read the end of Lily's letter, something which had been
troubling his few spare moments for months.  He was given some sort
of understanding of why his aunt hated his magical abilities and
couldn't love him.

It seems like the holistic impact is greater than any one memory
could be.

> 20. Why did JKR choose these particular memories for this chapter?
> Why did *Snape* choose them?

I think JKR chose the memories to illustrate that there were two
narratives going on during Harry's life; while the mysteries/hero
narrative we read in the books was one, there would have been a
second, more important plot were this real life.  That narrative is
that Harry had to be raised the right way in order to be some sort of
kamikaze hero, willing to give his life in order to achieve a greater
good.  She chose Snape to have the memories because she understands
that plenty of readers feel empathy for Snape.  He doesn't punish
students for sadistic pleasure, but because he doesn't accept
substandard work.

Snape chose the memories for two reasons; the first is because he
needs Harry to understand what Harry has to do next.  The second,
more personal reason, is to show that Severus loved Lily and that
even though Snape thought there was too much of his father in Harry,
he helped raise the boy in order to honor the memory of his mother.

saturniia