CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 184878

Leah:
<SNIP>
So, Sirius is someone who gave another low-impulse-control teen
information on how to get into a game room knowing that an extremely
dangerous child predator was there, without telling him how to protect
himself. If the predator had harmed or infected the teen, wouldn't
Sirius be greatly to blame? If someone sent your kid into a chat
room, or a church choir or locker room, knowing a predator was there,
without telling him how to protect himself, how would you feel about
it?

Alla:

Except to me this low-impulse-control teen was not being **sent**
there IMO, he went there and no, seeing a predator there was not a
surprise for him, it was something that IMO he knew or suspected that
it was there.

I mean, the **being sent** part is the main reason why the analogy
does not stand for me. And I mean, any RL analogy even phrased
differently would not probably stand for me because of the predators
like this do not exist in RW ( but that is an aside and not the main
reason).

So if I were to answer, yeah, I would think that in the set up where
nobody sent that teen there, but he chose to go, he is the one to
blame first and foremost, in the fictional world. Of course there is
a possibility that Muggle law would assign some responsibility to the
teen who gave the information, however to me ( lawyer who does not do
criminal law, but lawyer nevertheless) it is not a guarantee at all,
too many factors to consider.

Magpie:
<SNIP>
It's not, for me, that MWPP going into the willow is the same as
telling Snape it was safe. Snape may have just told himself that any
magic they could do he could do--which he would have no way of
knowing. Or maybe he just thought that he was up to handling a
werewolf. Or maybe he thought they were trying to scare him and Lupin
would be chained up. But that's all speculation on his part. They're
not responsible for him psyching himself up to think that whatever was
there he could handle. But if I were Sirius I'd feel my concealing
the only way I knew to protect myself from the werewolf--something I
knew Snape didn't have access too--made me responsible if something
happened to him. It would feel like tricking him to me.


Alla:

Oh Magpie thank you so much for clarifying! I think I understand
now. I am happy that you do not seem to take away Snape's
responsibility for making a choice to go there, I was under
impression that Sirius concealing that they are Animagi somehow
makes him completely to blame for Snape deciding to go.

So basically you are saying that it should feel trickery from Sirius
POV, right? The funny thing to me that if it feels as trickery from
Sirius POV it does not translate into being an action of trickery for
me. Read on and tell me if I am being confusing. See, another funny
thing to me that if I think about Sirius mindset in abstract sort of
way after book 7 it does not necessarily look better for him. I mean
I was expecting to hear something that Sirius was thinking when he
decided to do it. I mean, I still believe that he wanted to scare
Snape badly, but hey for all I know and for all I care, in abstract
sort of way he may have wanted Snape to be eaten by Remus as tasty
snack. I cannot **disprove** after book 7 that he did not want Snape
to be killed. (Oh boy do I expect to be reminded of it for months to
come lol).

However, and I want to make my argument as clear as I can, I cannot
disprove that Sirius **mindset** was to kill Snape in the most
abstract sort of way only. I believe that what Sirius actually
**did** cannot hold up as any plotting to scare Snape, kill Snape or
do anything to Snape.

Sirius did not tell him that they were animagi, of course he did not.
However, I do not believe for a second that if he would have told him
that they were animagi that Snape would not want to go there and
confront that werewolf that he knew or suspected was there. That is
why in my mind him not telling does not qualify as the factor that
would have stopped Snape from going.

It as you so eloquently said in the post you went back on - I
totally agree that Sirius gave Snape the robes to hang himself,
however I believe that Snape and only Snape is the one who tight the
knot and hang himself on them, or would have been had it not been for
James.

By the way, silly question (am apologizing for memory loss), have we
ever learned who told James what happened?

JMO,

Alla