CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 184880

> Alla:

> However, and I want to make my argument as clear as I can, I cannot
> disprove that Sirius **mindset** was to kill Snape in the most
> abstract sort of way only. I believe that what Sirius actually
> **did** cannot hold up as any plotting to scare Snape, kill Snape or
> do anything to Snape.
> 
> Sirius did not tell him that they were animagi, of course he did 
not.
> However, I do not believe for a second that if he would have told 
him
> that they were animagi that Snape would not want to go there and
> confront that werewolf that he knew or suspected was there. That is
> why in my mind him not telling does not qualify as the factor that
> would have stopped Snape from going.

Magpie:
Yes, I think one could make a case for Snape knowing what he was 
getting into and doing it, if all he knew was that there was a 
werewolf there. That he didn't know the Marauders were animagi is 
just one more thing he didn't know--I mean, that's the point of how 
foolish and reckless he was being. The only thing he thinks he does 
know is that there's a dangerous creature in there. If someone asked 
him how he expected to survive and he said "The same way MWPP did!" 
he still wouldn't be able to say exactly what method that was.

>From Sirius' pov it's more to me not that Sirius is actively tricking 
Snape or enticing him by witholding the information, but just that in 
a situation like that he knows that Snape is being an idiot. Maybe 
Snape should also know that he's being an idiot, but he's being an 
idiot at the time so isn't thinking about that.:-) Where as Sirius 
has a clearer view of the danger because he's been through the tunnel 
already. So that's why if I were Sirius I'd feel like I had some 
responsibility to try to prevent him from getting himself hurt or 
killed. It's not my fault that he's determined to do it, but he's 
going to get killed so I'd feel like I should stop him.

Of course, Snape is not the only adolescent here. I agree with your 
views on Sirius too, I think, in that I don't think he was literally 
planning a murder. I think he did just in an abstract way think Snape 
would be scared and run away. All the Marauders had already been 
playing fast and loose with the werewolf danger already and Sirius 
may have just not felt the danger any more because he was so used to 
it. But that more puts Sirius on the same level of Snape when it 
comes to not thinking things through than it makes Sirius the more 
culpable. He only seems more at fault because Snape was gambling with 
his own life and Sirius with someone else's. Sirius' irresponsibility 
is still fairly passive, especially compared to Snape.

It still reads to me like years later Snape is projecting his own 
feelings of shame and embarassment on Sirius, though. And James as 
well. When I picture how it all went down now--and as you know I 
can't prove this is how it happened at all--but it seems like Snape 
was all puffed up with righteous indignation and had visions of 
discrediting the Marauders once and for all and proving his theories 
true. Then he got into the tunnel and had a moment of real fear when 
he saw he was facing a werewolf, followed by James of all people 
dragging him to safety. I think that moment of pants-wetting fear, 
perhaps followed by clinging to James...that might be a truly 
humiliating memory for him. (Maybe that was one of the ones in the 
Pensieve along with the one we saw in SWM.) I feel like those 
feelings of shame and anger at himself for being so overcome got 
translated into anger at being tricked--the whole thing was a set up 
to get him to look foolish. And if he then further converts it in his 
head to attempted murder he's got even more dignified--he wasn't 
scared or helpless or foolish, it's just that Sirius had a plan to 
kill him that he survived. In that version he avoids many of the bad 
feelings about himself at the time imo.

Alla:> 

> By the way, silly question (am apologizing for memory loss), have we
> ever learned who told James what happened?

Magpie:
I don't think we ever did that I know. We know that James is the one 
who saved Snape and I think there's a hint somewhere that James did 
find out that Snape was on his way in thanks to Sirius, but I don't 
think we ever really know how things went down.

-m