Prank WAS: Re: CHAPDISC: DH33, The Prince's Tale

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 184920

> Magpie wrote:
> > <snip>
> > But regardless the only way Sirius got involved was to give Snape 
> > information on how to get into the willow. Snape's decision to go 
> > into the willow was actually pretty well-informed. He knew the 
> > dangerous creature concealed inside. He didn't know what form or 
> > protection he would need or would use against him, it seems, but 
he 
> > knew he didn't know that.
> 
> Carol responds:
> 
> However much severus may have wanted to verify his theory and find 
out
> what the Marauders were up to and regardless of his reason or 
resasons
> for wanting to do so, he could not have gotten past the Whomping
> Willow had Sirius not told him how to do so--Here's how to get 
*into*
> danger, in essence. 

Magpie:
Yes, and that is what I think Sirius should be held responsible for. 
He intentionally gave Snape help to do something dangerous to Snape. 
I just wouldn't describe that as tricking him or tempting him. It's 
like if somebody wanted to commit murder and I got them a gun. I 
would be very much responsible in the death of the person they killed 
by giving the person a gun to kill the person. I would not be guilty 
of tricking the person into murder or even enticing them to murder 
the other person. Presumably that would be something they came up 
with all on their own. 

Carol:
But Severus could not have gotten out again
> because he wasn't an Animagus--information which would have saved 
his
> life had he known it because he would not have gone down there.
> Instead, he had to be saved by James. Sirius would have let him die.

 He did not have the information he needed to make an informed 
decision
> because Sirius withheld it from him. 

Magpie:
Yes, but I don't think that makes him completely uninformed in the 
way you're describing. He didn't know how the Marauders were 
surviving and I do agree that that information was something Sirius 
needed to give him if he really wanted to be free of responsibility. 
But Snape knew that he had no information about how the werewolf 
would be restrained, if at all, and how he would get in and out 
safely. So while I agree witholding the Animagi information gives 
Sirius culpability, I couldn't really say that it makes him 
responsible for Snape going into the tunnel. There being a werewolf 
in the place was a good deterrant and he decided to go in there. To 
me the information it seems he did know--that there was a werewolf--
is the most important thing he needed to be informed. He knew that 
the Marauders hadn't shared with him their secret for staying safe if 
they had one. 

Prior to DH it seemed like Snape didn't know there was a werewolf and 
that's why he claimed it was attempted murder. Now it seems like he 
did know but he went in without a clear knowledge of how he was going 
to be safe from said werewolf. The idea that he would be safe was 
just vague speculation on his part.

Carol:
> 
> I just don't see how Sirius can get off the hook for giving him the
> key to the werewolf's cage without another key to get back out 
again.

Magpie:
He's not off the hook with me. He's guilty of giving Snape the key to 
get in without having any way of knowing how he would get out again. 
It's the decision to go in to see the dangerous werewolf with no real 
way of knowing how to protect himself Sirius isn't guilty of now for 
me.

Carol:
> 
> Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what specific charges Sirius would
> have faced in a court of law had severus died, assuming that he was
> tried as an adult, but I can think of three possibilities:
> second-degree murder, manslaughter, and criminal endangerment.
> Regardless, providing the means to enable a fellow student to 
endanger
> himself is about as "amusing" as bringing Death Eaters into the
> school, the fact that it endangered only one student 
notwithstanding.

Magpie:
I'm not a lawyer either, but I can't imagine he'd be guilty of 
something like manslaughter or murder or even criminal endangerment 
because he told Snape how to get into the willow when Snape knew 
there was a werewolf in there and went in to prove it to himself.

 
> Carol, who thinks that if the shoe had been on the other foot, 
Sirius
> would have been at least as eager to prove his bravery and 
competence
> as Severus was to prove his theory, particularly if he thought he
> could get Severus in trouble into the bargain

Magpie:
And if Sirius went into the willow knowing there was a werewolf there 
in order to prove his bravery I wouldn't blame Snape for it either, 
even if Snape was the one to give him the key to the willow. I'd only 
blame Snape for the action of giving him the key when he obviously 
shouldn't have, because as a fellow human being he shouldn't help 
someone do something self-destructive.

-m