Sirius and Snape parallels again

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 185039

Alla:
> And what I think Dumbledore should have done is NOT to capitalize on
 it, but help Sirius to survive that choice, both *mentally and 
 physically* IMO.

Pippin:
But if he had let Sirius run unnecessary risks for the Order, wouldn't
he be taking advantage of Sirius's weaknesses? Is it okay if Sirius
wants to risk his life for thrills, but not if he's willing to risk
his happiness to keep himself available for Harry?

It's not that Dumbledore was refusing to let Harry's loved ones risk
themselves. Molly, Arthur and Lupin are all sent into danger, not to
mention Ron and Hermione. But Dumbledore, Snape, Molly, Lupin and
Harry himself all felt that given the opportunity, Sirius would take 
risks that were unnecessary. I think if such a diverse group of people
agree on something, it's probably true. And if it is true, then Sirius
would endanger not only himself, but the mission he was sent to
perform. It would have been totally irresponsible of Dumbledore to use
Sirius in that way.

> Alla:
> 
> 
> But I am sure you will ask me what I think Dumbledore should have 
> done for me to consider him a compassionate man in this scene and at
 the same time leader of light? Because see I think those two things
are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> I absolutely think that the member of the gang of killers and 
> torturers needs to hear you disgust me, definitely. However, asking 
> him to serve Dumbledore in exchange for the protection of those whom
 Dumbledore **already** supposed to protect?

Pippin:
That's not quite the situation. Harry would have been protected
anyway, but James and Lily were not civilians. They were Order
members, putting themselves in harm's way to protect others. Snape,
whether he realized it or not, was asking Dumbledore to take Lily out
of the fight.  Dumbledore was demanding that Snape accept a package
deal: he'll take Lily out of the fight only if Snape will agree that
James and Harry also should be protected. 

Dumbledore was serving notice that Snape wouldn't be allowed to use
the Order as he'd hoped to use Voldemort -- to dispose of Lily's
family so he could have her to himself.

But that meant DD would lose two fighters -- was it wrong for him to
ask what Snape could offer in return? 

Alla: 
> And then give him Draco's choice at least. Tell him that Light will 
> protect him. That's it.

Pippin:
After Lily died, Snape didn't *want* protection. He already had it. He
believed that Voldemort was gone forever. Draco's choice wouldn't have
helped him. He didn't want to go off and nurse his wounds, and there
wasn't anyone left that he wanted to save. He wanted to die.
 

> Alla:
> 
> Oh no not such a deft manipulator, just the one IMO as what Lizzyben
 describes, the one who plays his psychic trauma over and over again 
at other people. 

Pippin:

Why single out Dumbledore when the whole wizarding world is guilty? 

The magical world has locked itself away, and those who can't or won't
stay in the closet are either driven out of civilized society
altogether or imprisoned perforce. It wasn't Albus who decided that
Arianna had to be kept hidden for her own safety. His parents did
that, because they knew the Ministry wouldn't think she could be
trusted to obey the statutes of secrecy. 

Albus rebelled against that, and wanted to lead the wizards out of
hiding.  He was weary of looking after Arianna and of trying to keep
Aberforth's behavior in bounds. But if he'd refused to do it, the WW
would have stepped in. The whole wizarding world is repeating the
trauma it suffered in breaking away from the Muggles -- I think JKR
herself said something to this effect.
 
> Alla:
> 
> Really? So what did he have to do for the Order in OOP? 

Pippin:
Sirius did participate in strategy meetings. He could have helped
cleanse the house -- it might have been therapeutic for him. He
certainly enjoyed throwing away his parents' possessions.

 But it seems he couldn't take much contact with people, even Harry.
He spent most of his time in his room even when Harry was there. 

Alla:
> 
> I also wonder, what was so very life threatening about notifying old
 crowd task at the end of GoF and lying low at Lupin afterwards?
 
> Sirius seemed to embrace it with gusto to me.
<snip>

> Dumbledore did not try, so we will never know.

Pippin:
Hmmmm. Dumbledore did give Sirius a mission. We don't know how well he
performed it, but we do know that afterward, everyone, including Molly
who hadn't known Sirius in the old days, felt he couldn't be trusted
not to take unnecessary risks. 

Sirius never disputed it, either. 

Pippin