Sirius and Snape parallels again

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 185043

> > Alla:
> > I absolutely think that the member of the gang of killers and 
> > torturers needs to hear you disgust me, definitely. However, asking 
> > him [Snape] to serve Dumbledore in exchange for the protection of 
> > those whom Dumbledore **already** supposed to protect?
> 
> Pippin:
> That's not quite the situation. Harry would have been protected
> anyway, but James and Lily were not civilians. They were Order
> members, putting themselves in harm's way to protect others. Snape,
> whether he realized it or not, was asking Dumbledore to take Lily out
> of the fight.  Dumbledore was demanding that Snape accept a package
> deal: he'll take Lily out of the fight only if Snape will agree that
> James and Harry also should be protected. 

Montavilla47:
That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, unless Dumbledore really
thought that the prophecy was nonsense.  If Harry or Neville had 
the possiblity of being the one who would vanquish Voldemort, then
it only made sense to protect them, even before Snape showed up
with his warning.

The only information that Snape really brought to Dumbledore 
was that Voldemort had actually heard about the prophecy and 
had decided on an interpretation.

And Snape doesn't have any say over whether or not James and
Harry are protected by Dumbledore.  Dumbledore doesn't need
his permission to do that.  


Pippin:
> Dumbledore was serving notice that Snape wouldn't be allowed to use
> the Order as he'd hoped to use Voldemort -- to dispose of Lily's
> family so he could have her to himself.

Montavilla47:
I find that quite unfair.  There is absolutely no indication that 
Snape intended to have Lily "to himself."  We don't, of course, 
know exactly when Snape heard the prophecy, so it's impossible
to say that he didn't know it would apply to Lily and Jame's son.

But it's highly unlikely that he would, since he was no longer in 
any sort of association with Lily and James.  How would he 
even know she was expecting a child, much less the gender of
the child or when it was to be born?  

So, he could not have had that in mind when he delivered the
prophecy (the part he had heard) to Voldemort.  When Snape
does realize that Voldemort is applying the prophecy to Lily's
child--his immediate and overwhelming reaction is alarm for 
Lily's safety.  Not how to use the situation in order to free her
up from her inconvenient family.

What Dumbledore is faulting Snape for isn't that Snape is 
trying to manipulate the situation.  He's finding fault because
Snape is indifferent to James and Harry--because Snape lacks
the greatness of heart to care about a person he hates and
one he doesn't know.

Pippin:
> But that meant DD would lose two fighters -- was it wrong for him to
> ask what Snape could offer in return? 

Montavilla47:
Really, all I can say to that is that if Dumbledore was thinking 
only about the number of his fighters, then he has no business
faulting Snape for his indifference to James and Harry.

I simply think that Dumbledore was taking advantage of the
situation to gain himself a valuable spy.  It was, after all,
a war going on.  I don't really blame Dumbledore for taking
advantage of Snape here.  

And, as someone who is unabashedly pro-Snape, it's always
nice to be reminded that, as big of a jerk as Snape could be,
Dumbledore was a much bigger one.