Snape as Harry's protector or not WAS Snape and moral courage LONG

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 184699

> Montavilla47:
> <SNIP>
> But accepting it doesn't mean that Snape didn't care. Which is what
> you are arguing. <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> No, not quite. I am arguing that he did not care nearly enough to
not  accept it. I do not think it is the exact same thing.

Pippin:
I know it is annoying that these people just look to Dumbledore and
Harry to solve all their problems. But the fact is, across the series
Dumbledore's plans work more often than not. And the people who don't
accept Dumbledore's plans meet disaster.

James and Lily, Crouch Sr., Karkaroff, Sirius, the Ministry of
Magic...all come to ruin. Can you really blame Snape for thinking that
if Dumbledore's plans don't work, no one's will?


Alla:
> 
> Without Snape giving him this information Harry would not have 
> decided to do that. And again, I do not care if it was a good 
> decision for the mankind and in essence for Harry's survival, of 
> course it was , but we only know about it after the fact IMO and 
> Snape had no way of knowing.

Pippin:
Without the information, Harry would have gone up  against Voldemort,
assuming he could dispose of Nagini, without knowing that after he has
apparently killed him, Voldemort will still be around. The Dark Marks
will fade, the scar will stop hurting, people will be released from
Imperius, and Harry will be quite sure that it's all over. But he
won't be safe.

Tell me, if you are not tired of the subject, how do you see this as
protecting Harry? 

We protect our children by limiting their choices. But when they are
adults, IMO, we have to give them the right to choose, and protect
that. Harry is not Dumbledore's puppet as he walks into the forest. He
is very aware that he has a choice, that his body wants to live. It is
Harry, not Dumbledore, who decides between his body's wish to live and
all that Harry can accomplish by dying. 
 
> Alla:
> 
> What hints Pippin? Snape sees that Dumbledore does not want him to 
> know something, again. He already complained about it to Dumbledore 
> before, how does he suppose to know that Dumbledore keeping his eyes
 shut means that Dumbledore has a secret plan which is likely to keep
 Harry alive?

Pippin:
Dumbledore has had sixteen years to think up a plan for the soul bit
that wouldn't involve Harry's death. It just seems to me that Snape
would be silly to think he could come up with a better one, especially
considering the track record of people who thought they had better
plans than Dumbledore. 

 He has just been reminded that the reason Dumbledore keeps secrets
from him is that DD doesn't want to put all his eggs in one basket. So
Snape is given a strong hint that this plan has some eggs that he
doesn't know about, but that will be a nasty shock to Voldie.
Otherwise why hide them from Snape?
 
> Pippin:
> Dumbledore is hardly such a slouch at occlumency that he can't do it
> with his eyes open.
> 
> Alla:
> Dumbledore cannot do what with his eyes open? You are saying that he
can block unwanted information from giving it out even with his eyes open?
> 
> He probably can, but what does it matter? Why risk it?
> 

Pippin:

 Why should Dumbledore make it obvious to Snape that he is hiding
something, when he can probably do what Snape does when he is dealing
with Voldie, and give him the guided tour? Let Snape sense only those
thoughts and memories that Dumbledore wants him to see, I mean.

Pippin