Snape as Harry's protector or not WAS Snape and moral courage LONG

[montavilla47]

No: HPFGUIDX 184706

> > > Pippin:
> > > Do you think, if they had known that Voldemort was going to offer
> Lily a chance to live at her son's expense, that they would have told
> her to take it? Would she have been the person they loved if she had?
> > 
> > Montavilla47:
> > I'm not sure what you are saying here or what relationship it has
> > to what I was saying, because I'm not sure how this all relates
> > to James or Lily.  Could you please clarify?
> 
> 
> Pippin:
> I agree  that Snape had to be almost psychotically out of touch with
> reality to think that Lily Potter could ever have found any happiness
> as a DE!chick. (Though to give Snape his due, SWM!Lily was   impressed
> with Bullyboy!James despite herself.)

Montavila47:
Hehe.  Good point!

Pippin:
> But it seems to me that James, Lily, Sirius and Lupin would have to be
> equally in denial to think that Harry could be happy to run off
> somewhere and hide from Voldemort, leaving others to fight and die
> alone. Distance doesn't matter to the scar connection, unfortunately.
> It's not as if Harry could have lived his life in blissful ignorance
> if only Dumbledore had left him alone. 

Montavilla47:
I see what you are saying.  Thanks for clarifying that.

Pippin:
> Harry is a part of his world just as much as Lily was a part of hers.
> Just as it was incredibly selfish and self-absorbed of Snape to think
> that he could rip Lily away from her world, it would be, IMO
> incredibly selfish and self-absorbed of Harry's family to think that
> Harry's world would be well lost if Harry was safe and happy
> somewhere. It wouldn't even be possible, unless Harry were a very
> different person than the Harry they knew. Obviously you don't see it
> that way. What am I missing?

Montavilla47:
I think what you are missing, for me, is that, while it's selfish to want
your kids or loved ones to live when it's better for the world that they
sacrifice their lives, it's still the parents' role to be that selfish.  Parents
are supposed to want their kids to be alive and, if possible, happy.

Even if that's bad for the world. 

Look at Molly.  She's fighting as hard as she can in the early
part of DH to keep Harry, Ron, and Hermione from going on their 
dangerous quest.  Why?  Because she considers herself their mother.
(At least of Ron and Harry.  She might have been fine with Hermione
going off by herself. :))

Which is why Harry, the adult, has to make his own decisions.

And why, Harry, the adult, didn't tell Ron or Hermione that he was 
going off to die in the forest.  He knew they'd try to stop him--even
if it might that Voldemort would survive.

It may be selfish, but that's the way people are.


Pippin:
> I can see where it seems weird that the revenants don't show any
> denial at all. But then why should they? Spirits who can no longer be
> deceived by worldly appearances wouldn't need to doubt anything. 
> 
> Revenant Lily does not act as if she is about to be bereaved of her
> son, because she isn't. He is about to join her. And he is, in a way,
> validating the choice that she made, to save him instead of herself.

Montavilla47:
I actually didn't find it all that weird that the revenants (nice word) 
were cheering Harry on.  As you say, they aren't going to lose Harry
when he dies.

That's why I made the distinction between the dead foursome and the
live foursome.  I don't think the live Sirius would have gone along with
Dumbledore's plan, because I think that the live Sirius was fairly 
selfish and self-absorbed.  Living Lily and James, would most likely be,
as Molly was, horrified at the idea of losing their only child.  

As for Remus, I'm not quite sure.  I actually think he would have been
more like Snape, initially horrified by eventually seeing the ultimate
point.  I also think he would have recognized that it was Harry's choice
and acted accordingly.  

Which makes me wonder why Dumbledore didn't back-up Snape with 
Lupin.  As a spy among the warewolves, Lupin might have been able 
to edge his way into DE circles enough to find out when Voldemort 
was guarding Nagini.  Harry trusted Lupin, even if he thought he was a 
coward, and would have listened to him.