Dumbledore versus General Iroh SPOILERS for Avatar the Last airbender LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 184726

Pippin:
<HUGE SNIP>
> Iroh sounds like more of a wish fulfillment figure than Dumbledore.

Magpie:
Well, he isn't any more of a wish fulfillment figure than Dumbledore
however he sounds (not sure how he sounds so much more wish-
fulfilling). He's just a mentor who doesn't operate like Dumbledore
within the story or as a character. <SNIP>

Alla:

I hesitate to react till I understand in what sense Iroh sounds like 
wish fulfillment for Pippin. I mean if it is wish fulfillment in a 
sense that one would want to have likeable Wise Old Man in the story, 
then sure I agree – it is fulfillment of that particular wish. 
However his character does not become less believable because he is 
likeable or anything like that.

But in any event there is a reason why I jumped on wish fulfillment 
part of Pippin's argument, because there is certainly something in 
Avatar which to me sound like idealistic wish fulfillment and this is 
of course the ending of it. However, the road to that ending is so 
painful, so so hard so filled with pain of losses, etc, that I think 
I will forgive that ending. Before you tell me that ending in HP is 
also happy, well, I totally agree that it is happy for the 
characters, I however disagree that the ending for the society is all 
warm and fuzzy. I mean, we debated all that in the past of course, 
but I am of the firm opinion that all the things that are left 
hanging, well to me it is more realistic to left them hanging and 
hope that change will come then to resolve all that and be going to 
the era of love and peace. 

BUT this is the only gripe I have with the Avatar and again, since 
the target of the show are preteens, I think making them feel warm 
and fuzzy ( and me too), and hoping that era of love and peace will 
come one day despite the fact that history so far did not show me 
anything to that effect, well not the worst thing that can be shown 
as ideal.

I also just realized something else that while to me Iroh beats 
Dumbledore hands down in all departments for the reasons that  
Shelley and Magpie so eloquently described ( and I do agree with 
them), well I just realized that maybe to me it is not exactly fair 
to compare them. I mean, it is fair to compare them as wise old men, 
yes, but IMO the fact that their mentees have different functions in 
the story sort of precludes certain things. Let me try to explain.

And actually, it only concerns Iroh for the most part anyways, 
basically I do not think that there is anything that should have 
stopped Dumbledore from being more like Iroh. I totally believe that 
Harry would have benefited tremendously from that kind of 
relationship and would have been much happier in so many aspects, 
however I do not think that Zuco, all things remaining the same 
**could** have mentor like Dumbledore in the story if that makes 
sense.

Again, I am being very honest I only thought about it just now, 
therefore I may not be very clear in what I am trying to say, feel 
free to ask questions.  To me Zuco is basically Draco Malfoy of 
Avatar world, not in a sense that their circumstances are exactly the 
same, because of course they are not, but in a sense that Malfoy is 
on the wrong side of the fight and expected to choose differently and 
Zuco is on the wrong side initially and expected to choose 
differently. As some of  you may know, I cannot stand Malfoy, never 
did, but I absolutely adore Zuco. I find his character arc to be the 
most honest, realistically handle and well, just beautiful. So my 
point is that since show creators had in mind for Zuco eventually to 
choose correctly, I am just wondering if they decided that mentor 
like Dumbledore may have prevented Zuco from choosing correctly 
instead of helping, you know?

I mean, look how in HBP how delicately Dumbledore tries to handle 
Draco Malfoy. I mean, delicately the way Dumbledore means the word of 
course and I do not like how Dumbledore does it one bit, but I am 
trying to talk about the idea of sort of handling them similarly, you 
know?

I am still not sure if that makes sense.  Iroh is the mentor to the 
teenager, who is not the Chosen one, right? I mean he needs to choose 
his destiny and in a sense the end of war depends on him too, but he 
is not the one who needs to accept the destiny of the Chosen one 
(Avatar), he is the one who should choose to **help** the Chosen one. 
I cannot explain why it feels so differently to me, but it does.

Aang ( the Avatar) really does not have the luxury of not accepting 
his destiny, doesn't he? I mean, it is accept or a whole lot of more 
people will die and just look how more died in the 100 years while 
you chickened out and run away. And in a way I am wondering whether 
if Aang had a mentor, whether that mentor would have been just as 
patient with him as Iroh is with Zuco.

Come to think of it, does Aang really has a mentor? Does Roko count 
as such? If he does, well, in a way it is really mentoring himself 
lol, well I do not think that Roko is manipulative, but to me he is 
not so patient as Iroh, like at all.

And well, just as an aside, if we were compare protagonists of this 
show and Harry Potter,  I was never able to really connect to Aang. I 
mean, I do see how well he is done, but I guess to me his struggles 
and insecurities are sort of superficial. I guess to me his abilities 
to defeat Fire Lord were always there and all that he had to do is to 
work harder, to drive him more and he will tap into them. To me 
Harry's struggle in that way felt much more real, truly ordinary kid 
(despite being celebrity and all) thrown into something which seems 
so beyond his reach (defeating Dark Lordy with love as Dumbledore 
keeps telling him). While Aang has all those extraordinary powers and 
just IMO needs to talk him into or work harder to use them. I mean, 
even when he is scared to firebend because he burned Katara before, 
Guru tells him that you are an Avatar that means you are a 
firebender. To me that pretty much sums up the source of my annoyance 
with Aang.

JMO,

Alla