Dumbledore versus General Iroh SPOILERS for Avatar the Last airbender LONG

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 184731

> Pippin:
> If I understand you correctly, you are wishing that Dumbledore was
> more like Iroh, not so that Rowling's story would work better, but 
so
> that Harry would have had an easier life. Is that right? So in that
> sense, Iroh would function as  a wish fulfillment character in the 
HP
> universe. 
> 
> It has nothing to do with whether Iroh would be a believable 
character
> in Rowling's world, or in our world, which I am in no position to 
judge.
> 
> I do not think, in terms of Rowling's story, that a more benign 
mentor
> could have given Harry the experiences that JKR wanted him to have. 

Alla:

No, I do not think you understood me correctly at all. I was trying 
to figure out in what sense Iroh sounds as wish fulfilment **for 
you**, that's all. And I still do not understand that part of your 
argument.

Now you seem to be switching geres in the midair, and I do not even 
understand how to argue against the argument I never advanced in the 
first place. But let me try.

I **certainly** wish that Dumbledore would have been more like Iroh, 
absolutely. What do you mean not for the story working better? I am 
always very reluctant to tell the writer how the story would work 
better, I mean JKR wrote the story that she wrote. Does it work for 
me? Sure in  general it does. Does Dumbledore's character work for 
me? As manipulative bastard he absolutely works for me, I think he is 
written very consistently that way. But as a character I can respect 
and like? Um, no not really it does not. So really it all depends on 
what exactly was the meaning of the *story working better*. If you 
mean that I want for Dumbledore to operate more like Iroh because 
then I would have **liked** the character better? Do I think he would 
have **easier** life with somebody like Iroh? Um, only in a sense 
that he would have had an adult in his life who was genuinely 
interested in helping him grow in a man, NOT in him being a weapon. 
IMO of course.

Pippin:
> But it is really not Dumbledore's plan that forces Harry into a
> situation where he has to carry out Dumbledore's plan  or everything
> he cares about will be destroyed. 

Alla:

Oh? Somebody else planned all that?

Pippin: 
>   Harry  decided that Dumbledore was wrong to trust only the Trio, 
and
> enlisted the help of the others to find the Hogwarts Horcrux.  But 
by
> doing that, Harry put himself under an obligation to the others. He
> couldn't refuse to die for them when they were dying for him, not
> without becoming another Pettigrew.

Alla:

Harry can **never** refuse to die for other people, he had been 
trained to do that since he was young IMO. I believe that it is in 
him as well - genes, etc, but I believe that if he was raised 
differently, he would have at least been able to consider other 
possibilities.

 
> Magpie:
> So Dumbledore manipulates again by "allowing" Harry to think that he
> betrayed him, and Harry decides by himself to follow Dumbledore
> 
> Pippin:
> It was manipulative of Dumbledore to get Harry to  think for himself
> and decide to do the right thing? How do you see that as different
> from leadership? 

Alla:

I do not believe that Dumbledore ever did that, allowing Harry to 
think for himself that is. I think Harry exercised that function of 
his brain contrary to Dumbledore, not because of him. However, I 
believe that at this point it did not matter much in a sense that 
Harry was already shaped to make that decision.

I think the fact that Dumbledore is not among Harry's loved ones 
called by stone tells us a lot, I was very glad to see that. However, 
I think Dumbledore started preparing Harry to do that ever since they 
did Stone adventure. JMO.

Alla.